#1 2012-08-29 00:38:04

Can anyone please suggest a good readable novel about the military industrial complex? One of my students wants to read one and I'd really hate to suffer through anything remotely like a steaming pile of Tom Clancy.

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#2 2012-08-29 01:19:51

Wow, I have to think back when I used to run with the Beltway Bandit crowd of FFRDCs.

"A Fiery Peace in a Cold War: Bernard Schriever and the Ultimate Weapon" by Neil Sheehan is great. Sheehan's "A Bright Shining Lie" won the Pulitzer, so he can write and Schriever is a real-life mashup of the guy Boris Yeltsin thinks he is and General Jack Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. Along the way they happen to build the first ICBMs.

For pure fiction, try "The Winged and Garlanded Nike A Novel of the Atomic Age" by S. Scott. It's a great fictionalized novel set amid the life of a Nike missile building plant in California, like a mill town manufacturing the Cold War. While a bit jumpy, the writing is good and not as dense as A Fiery Peace. How mature is your student? High school or college?

For comedy, try "Bathtub Admirals" by J Huber. I read it just last summer and found it funny, but in a biting, satiric way, like Catch-22 or Slaughterhouse 5, but written more like A Confederacy of Dunces. Still has the best depiction of daily life in the Navy that I have ever read.

I've heard good things about "Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War" by Robert Coram, but haven't read it. An AWACS pilot that used to work with my Dad was praising it, but my library doesn't have it and can't seem to get it so I forgot about it, but found it's name in an email the dude sent me. Not as much about defense contractors and the MIC, but still great in seeing how the 5 sided ring full of military genius' can be flummoxed by one man.

I wouldn't classify most Clancy as "military industrial complex" except that his contractors are always super rich but always doing it for patriotic reasons only... You want real tripe, go for Clive Cussler.

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#3 2012-08-29 01:25:47

Thanks, Goob, I'll check them out.

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#4 2012-09-12 06:20:00

Goob, thanks for your suggestions but I'm going to start him out with Eisenhower's farewell address then right into The Cunt Who Wrote The Hunt For Red October. He's ready for a lively story, and Clancy does have the saving grace of portraying the way the MIC is supposed to function. I can supply the necessary cynicism to put the book into a more proper perspective. Smedley Butler might be good next.

The books you mentioned aren't what he's looking for right now but I'm going to order a couple for myself.

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#5 2012-09-12 08:47:30

Notice how all of the posts in your thread are you? Except one from Booger to let everyone know how smart he is, and one from me to kick you in the raisins.

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#6 2012-09-12 09:12:20

Someone ask you a question, Skid?

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#7 2012-09-12 09:23:27

No. I asked you one, scrotum.

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#8 2012-09-12 09:26:07

What makes you think I don't like it that way? 'Night, Skid. Sweet dreams!

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#9 2012-09-12 09:28:45

You don't. You are an attention craving losertic.

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#10 2012-09-12 18:17:13

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj190/BrittnieDLG/monkeypooflinging.jpg

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#11 2012-09-12 23:59:28

Of all the Tom Clancy, Hunt for the Red October isn't too bad. But still one of the very few books that's not really as good as the movie.

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#12 2012-09-13 00:17:14

Atlus Shrugged

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#13 2012-09-13 01:35:11

Atlas Shrugged: Oh, what a an intelligent well thought out, and exquisitely written tome!  Oh, the depths, the truths, the stance against the worms!

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#14 2012-09-13 02:03:19

Dmtdust wrote:

Atlas Shrugged: Oh, what a an intelligent well thought out, and exquisitely written tome!  Oh, the depths, the truths, the stance against the worms!

And how many liberals have actually read it?  Show of hands?  None.  What a surprise.

What's next?  Using The National Review's rebuff of it as ammunition?

Let's all go buy, and gift, Obaaaaama's newest ghost-written book!

http://nicedoggie.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/leg.jpg

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#15 2012-09-13 04:45:36

Egoist wrote:

And how many liberals have actually read it?  Show of hands?  None.  What a surprise.

Yes, its talking to itself.

Rhetorical effectiveness? -25

Logical/Intellectual validity? -50

Evidence of mental disorder? +25

Schadenfreude factor? +30

Overall, despite the bottom two scores, it's well below zero on the (admittedly subjective) readability scale.

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#16 2012-09-13 08:55:23

You miscalculated the Rhetorical Effectiveness. I came up with -75. I checked twice, you forgot to "carry the 1".

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#17 2012-09-13 09:12:20

Ms. Egoist, I've read Atlas Shrugged.  It's very poorly thought out political propaganda disguised as a novel.  It totally sucks as a novel; if I had read it for it's entertainment value I wouldn't have finished it.  As for its "philosophy", well, I suppose most people go through a phase where total selfishness and fuck everybody else looks like a great way to live one's life.  For most of us this occurs during our childhood/teens and hopefully winds down before or during early adulthood.  Sadly a significant minority never outgrow this infantile worldview.  The Republican Inner Party is composed of these intellectual and moral midgets.

Last edited by fnord (2012-09-13 09:30:29)

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#18 2012-09-13 10:53:35

fnord wrote:

Ms. Egoist, I've read Atlas Shrugged.  It's very poorly thought out political propaganda disguised as a novel.  It totally sucks as a novel; if I had read it for it's entertainment value I wouldn't have finished it.  As for its "philosophy", well, I suppose most people go through a phase where total selfishness and fuck everybody else looks like a great way to live one's life.  For most of us this occurs during our childhood/teens and hopefully winds down before or during early adulthood.  Sadly a significant minority never outgrow this infantile worldview.

You clearly didn't understand Rand's concept of selfishness.

The Republican Inner Party is composed of these intellectual and moral midgets.

Oh yes, the democrats are truly honorable, intellectual titans.  They are free from racism, sexism, and all corporeal failings.  Electing a murderous liar who is so smart, he doesn't know what the definition of is is.  They are so tolerant they welcome anti-Semites like Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, Al Shapton (who believes god is the only source of morality), I could go on for several lifetimes exposing the backwardness of all facets of the democrats.

Just ignore their increased corruption and failings because it's The Party.

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

Last edited by Egoist (2012-09-13 11:09:33)

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#19 2012-09-13 11:18:22

Egoist wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

Atlas Shrugged: Oh, what a an intelligent well thought out, and exquisitely written tome!  Oh, the depths, the truths, the stance against the worms!

And how many liberals have actually read it?  Show of hands?  None.  What a surprise.

What's next?  Using The National Review's rebuff of it as ammunition?

Let's all go buy, and gift, Obaaaaama's newest ghost-written book!

http://nicedoggie.net/wp-content/upload … 04/leg.jpg

Read them before you were born. 

I just want to celebrate you being on the forum!

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#20 2012-09-13 12:16:27

egoist wrote:

You clearly didn't understand Rand's concept of selfishness.

"Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue."

"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me."

"If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject."

“But why should you care what people will say? All you have to do is please yourself.”

“I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone's right to one minute of my life.”

What didn't I understand?  Her philosophy of selfishness is clearly stated in the above quotes.

egoist wrote:

Oh yes, the democrats are truly honorable, intellectual titans.

You assume that anybody who isn't a Randian Greedster like the members of the Republican Inner Party, or a Reich Wing Fucktard like the members of the Republican Outer Party must therefore be a fanatical member of the Democratic Party.  The Democratic Party has its own flaws, many of them the result of coalition politics.

Since you seem to be a newcomer, I'll state my rather unusual political orientation.  I'm a Liberal Racial Separatist.  I want a society composed only of White People which looks after its less fortunate with a generous safety net.  One where the state doesn't involve itself in legislating private consensual behavior.

It isn't necessary to prove a hierarchy of races to show that forcing the different races into a multi-racial society is detrimental to all races forced into this situation.  It's abundantly clear that blacks, mestizos, asians, indians, and Whites would be happier if they didn't have to associate with each other.

Last edited by fnord (2012-09-13 13:23:13)

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#21 2012-09-13 13:06:19

Are Thursdays the new troll feeding day?

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