Palin and Genetics is an unfair proposal, let's just start with the basics like ethics and fraud

I'll tell you what what one right-winger told me:

1.  The odds are that McCain will live;

2.  He's not a religious nut, so Palin brings nothing to the table as far as he's concerned. but...

3.  The VP doesn't have to do much anyway, so what harm can she cause?

Dmtdust wrote:

Okay, where are our Right Wing Cohorts, and how come they are keeping away from my questionnaire?   I am kinda hurt here, come on Phwedd, come on Ptah!

There is just no logic to it what so ever.  Health of the candidate should be HUGE in this campaign, yet it is hardly mentioned in the MSM.  When the candidates were asked to provide "doctors notes" to their overall health, B.O.'s doc provided a one-page summary stating that, besides smoking, he's in great shape.  JMc's doc provided 1200-page report and ...in recent weeks, more than 2,700 physicians have signed a petition that ran as an advertisement demanding that Mr. McCain fully release his health records.  Sad that all of the health records couldn't be covered in 1200 pages.  Have you ever seen the "Before/After" pics of POTUS on their first and last day?  I am not sure that McCain could survive even one-quarter of a term.  In this race, I am more scared of the use of 25th Amendment than I am of the Second.

Last edited by sic (2008-10-28 20:39:49)

For Dirck...

1.  That excludes the majority of voters.  Just sayin' 

2.  Concerns for the future.  This is the old paradigm that she is aligned with.

3.  WTF?  The Repubs and the Dems are 2 sides of the same Corporate party.

Dmtdust wrote:

For Dirck...

1.  That excludes the majority of voters.  Just sayin' 

2.  Concerns for the future.  This is the old paradigm that she is aligned with.

3.  WTF?  The Repubs and the Dems are 2 sides of the same Corporate party.

1.  It does exclude the majority of voters which is true, but evangelicals and rural folk actually show up to vote unlike many other citizens.

2.  Oil and coal are awesome sources of energy, the energy comes pre-stored, is abundant, easy to transport and the infrastructure is already in place.

3.  The Repubs and Dems are the same party, that's why it doesn't matter who wins.........

WilberCuntLicker wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

3.  The Repubs and Dems are the same party, that's why it doesn't matter who wins.........

Yes...and no. Right or left, 'pubes or dems, unless a certain threshold is passed (beyond which the society in question is deliberately and fundamentally restructured), governing ideology doesn't usually seem to matter much in terms of corporate profits. As long as there's a stable government, businesses will soldier on, rejoicing in the pork barrel and moaning at taxes and the value of the dollar.

Who you elect does, however, matter in terms of how you treat your own citizens. Right and Left ideologies are based on incomplete readings of "human nature." (Remember poli-sci 101?) Whig and Tory philosophies still pervade our political arguments today (even though they've flipped around...today's conservative is the 19th century's liberal and vice versa). What makes me laugh is the average thinker's complete lack of dialectical awarenes. People are patently both acquisitive AND communal. From an evolutionary perspective, both (in fact, all) facets of human nature combine and shift to meet the needs of a particular people at a particular time. The goal of politics, and of educated voters, should be to insist on the appropriate balance for the appropriate economic conditions. Sometimes that might look like the welfare state (which, by the way, is not a socialist concept, but a conservative one), sometimes it will look like capitalism. Both are good, both are necessary. People whose minds are incapable of critical, dialectical thinking, pollute the vote with emotional and tribe-based politics.

One of the few things Marx got right was the idea that the rich are always conspiring to keep the poor at the bottom.  Divide and conquer politics is ingrained in the American psyche.  How else could rich elitists like Bush and McCain push the idea that they give a fuck about the common man?  Neither would want Joe-the-not-even-a-plumber as a neighbor, or even a dinner guest.  They'd laugh at his sophmoric grasp of economics and taxes when he excused himself to go to the restroom.

Dirckman wrote:

Though what you say is true in general, I think it's overly exaggerated...  I think we just live in a world where everyone is looking out for number one...

People are more complicated than that, Dirckman, politics is per force more complicated than that, and survival, for all but a very few humans, is a cooperative affair. If it were not, we would live like grizzlies, grumpy and alone, congregating with our peers only to mate. I sympathize with your desire to be left alone - that's the way I feel too, but insofar as we are social animals, we won't be. Wealth redistribution, which goes FAR beyond welfare in both our countries, is inevitable, and to wish it away (say by Djinn), would be to invite the fast destruction of the comfortable societies we live in.

WilberCuntLicker wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

Though what you say is true in general, I think it's overly exaggerated...  I think we just live in a world where everyone is looking out for number one...

People are more complicated than that, Dirckman, politics is per force more complicated than that, and survival, for all but a very few humans, is a cooperative affair. If it were not, we would live like grizzlies, grumpy and alone, congregating with our peers only to mate. I sympathize with your desire to be left alone - that's the way I feel too, but insofar as we are social animals, we won't be. Wealth redistribution, which goes FAR beyond welfare in both our countries, is inevitable, and to wish it away (say by Djinn), would be to invite the fast destruction of the comfortable societies we live in.

I know it's more complicated than that...  I just happen to be in the social class that isn't fucking rich, but isn't so fucking retarded they need a handout to survive...  I'm neither the victim nor the oppressor and I don't want to involve myself in their class warfare...  When it comes to politics I'm willing to support someone that I feel represents me as a person and neither of the fucktards that the Democrats and the Republicans have put forward do that...  Both parties screw over normal functioning individuals who want to simply do their part for themselves...  I really don't want any favors or anybody doing anything for me other than leaving me alone...  I don't think that's too much to ask for...  I watch these High Streeters argue back and forth about politics and they are so adamant about fucking over another group of people, making them pay for one reason or another....  I don't want anyone else to pay, I want to go to work, be productive, get a paycheck, buy cool stuff, and do my thing.... Both parties do whatever they can to convince people that they are victims, the Democrats try to convince people they are the victims of the rich, the Republicans try to convince people they are the victims of the secular socialists..... I do whatever I can to avoid the victim mentality and take personal responsibility for myself...  If I fuck up and don't produce I get fired and don't live the lifestyle I want....  If I produce I'm an asset and will receive additional monies to retain me....  All I ask for is a free market and a secular society...  That's all anyone needs to succeed, if you don't succeed with that it's your own fault........

Dirckman wrote:

I know it's more complicated than that...  I just happen to be in the social class that isn't fucking rich, but isn't so fucking retarded they need a handout to survive...

Yes...there are a great many retards out there...if only we could fix that. But it would take a better education system than currently exists. Even the one that exists is there because of...let me hear you say it...wealth redistribution. 

Dirckman wrote:

I'm neither the victim nor the oppressor and I don't want to involve myself in their class warfare...

Wishful thinking.

Dirckman wrote:

I really don't want any favors or anybody doing anything for me other than leaving me alone...

Every time you drive down a non-toll road or send your kids to school (among countless other activities) you accept a favour from the government, and from tax-paying citizens (including yourself). It's communality that allows us to live comfortably.

Dirckman wrote:

All I ask for is a free market

There's no point being a raging atheist, Dirckman, if you simply latch on to another superstition. What is this free market? Show me one, please. You can't - it's an ideal state, like communism, and reality always shits on our ideals. Communist economies turn to crap because their ideologues can't embrace the natural hankering for a bit of profit motive. Capitalism turns to shit when it becomes the background to unbridled selfishness. Centrist policies turn to shit because they're too afraid of leaning one way or the other. The world needs flexible thinking and economic adaptability. And there is no way, within a social structure, of completely avoiding the need for some redistribution of wealth.

Last edited by WilberCuntLicker (2008-10-29 01:39:30)