Like a 1 Gbps connection to a POP isn't going to run you at least $10k a month....

Socialism?  Let's see, instead of waiting for government help, land owners build their own fiber network and charge their neighbors a reasonable fee to connect.  Sounds like pure capitalism to me.

phreddy wrote:

Socialism?  Let's see, instead of waiting for government help, land owners build their own fiber network and charge their neighbors a reasonable fee to connect.  Sounds like pure capitalism to me.

Methinks you are confusing socialism with communism; America has a tremendous history of socialism from Public Utilities and Highways to the original Internet and our standing Army.  These are all examples of people socializing their needs and working together for the greater good.  Public schools, Police Department and Fire Departments are more good examples of socialism.  Toll Roads and private security are examples of unfettered capitalism, while capitalism is very important as humans need motivation it can easily turn into the morass we currently face in which he who has the gold makes the rules and is safer and more secure than the rest of the society at large.  With unfettered (unregulated) capitalism we begin to return to feudal times where only those with large amounts of money have true freedom.

Much like everything else in life it takes an appropriate mix of both socialism and capitalism for a society to be and remain successful.

Now you are just nit-picking on certain popular terms.  There just aren't that many forms of society and it's really pretty simple:

Tribalism/Monarchy/Theocracy/Dictatorship
Communism
Socialism
Capitalism

When the last two are combined society as a whole see's the greatest benefit, once the balance of power shifts the economy begins to become ragged and the life situations of the majority of the people begin to suffer.  Pure socialism sucks and pure capitalism sucks. 

Whilst capitalism provides the motivation to the people to work hard and improve their station, socialism (co-op if you will) provides the foundation for those individuals to prosper.  The problem is capitalism necessitates strict oversight to prevent abuse & corruption and our current trend is to destroy that oversight in the name of "shrinking government".  Hell I'm all for making money, I just don't want to be robbed blind any more just because somebody is being bribed to convince me we don't need regulation.

Isn't socialism a prime example what family inheritance is all about?  Providing a strong foundation for your children to give them a strong start in life - that is the basis of true socialism; working together for a better future for all of society.  Fucking philosophers always fuck it up with their endless barrage of words, 150 years ago in small town Nebraska when they needed a school the townsfolk came together, donated the necessary material and effort and built a school.  Co-op and socialism are the same fucking thing when you get right down to brass tacks.

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity

Last edited by Emmeran (2013-03-18 14:50:24)

phreddy wrote:

Em,  no form of government is "pure".  Of course capitalist societies must have government managed functions.  The military is an obvious one.  And socialist countries, even communist ones, have capitalist threads running through them.  I was simply pointing out that forming a coop doesn't equate to socialism.  As for your Wiki link, capitalism is a social venture if you go by that definition.  Corporations, for instance, are citizen ownership of equity and I doubt you would admit that corporations are socialism "as it was meant to be".

Corporations only sometimes fit the description of "citizen ownership", oft times they are better described as private ownership or partnerships; the defining difference is that not all citizens share in the ownership and benefit of that endeavor. 

My primary argument remains that a strongly capitalist society requires stringent regulation and strong oversight to prevent abuses, deregulation has only brought us turmoil and misfortunate while allowing a few to become excessively wealthy by gaming the system at the expense of the rest.  Thus I am strongly against right-wing efforts to "shrink" government particularly the oversight agencies and every time they mention it I am strongly suspect of their motives.

ITT: butthurt libtards rage against anything without rhyme or reason.

phreddy could talk about breathing being capitalist and y'all would still rage.