The acorn does not fall far from the tree.

GooberMcNutly wrote:

The Taliban turned over Bergdahl Saturday morning to US special forces in exchange for five notorious Islamic militants who had been held at Guantanamo Bay and will be sent to Qatar, where they will stay for a year under the terms of the trade.

So much for "We don't negotiate with terrorists"...

Obama wants to call this a prisoner swap, which is common in wartime.  However, he continues to refer to the Guantanamo "detainees" and refuses to call them prisoners of war.  So, therefore, this is not a wartime prisoner swap and we are negotiating with terrorists.  And by doing so place a bounty on the head of every soldier in country.  And all to save the ass of a deserter. Don't get me started on the damage which will be done by the prisoners we released.

Em wrote:

Ahhh the delicious irony of John McCain having something to say about a prisoner swap

I'm no big McCain fan, but let's not forget this little piece of history.  McCain, who's father was an admiral, was offered a release by the N. Vietnamese so they could use his notoriety as propaganda.  McCain refused to leave before every man captured before him was released.  Here's a short version of how he was treated during his 5 1/2 years of capture, from Wiki:

John McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg ejecting from the aircraft, and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him. McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hỏa Lò Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, beating and interrogating him to get information; he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral. His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers.

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care. By then having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.

In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.

Who ever put these words in his mouth has their head on straight:  Sacred duty


I also liked Hagel's statement of "we'll deal with that after he's home".  These things transcend political bickering; no one gets left behind if there is any possibility what-so-ever.

Fled wrote:

Phreddy's condensed history of McCain's imprisonment may be accurate -- I don't really know the details.  He clearly was treated horribly.  The statement that McCain "refused to leave" does not sound quite right.  They could have done anything they wanted with him, including make him leave.  There must be more to that part of the story.

McCain is widely believed to be a traitor who collaborated with his captors against other POWs. That be as it may, he’s lead his life as a privileged asshole supreme. He crashed several jets due to his incompetence; had his father not been a 4 star admiral, it’s likely his career would have come to a quick end. One has to wonder about his culpability in the USS Forrestal tragedy.

His first wife became handicapped as a result of a car accident while he was a POW. Her thanks for holding the family together during his captivity was for him to begin shopping for her replacement the moment he was back on US soil. As a result his older children refused to speak to him for many years.

In other words, McCain’s heroic public image is mostly a matter of PR. Had he become president, we would now be bogged down in an occupation of Iran, still heavily invested in Iraq, and without any plan to leave Afghanistan. Odin only knows what other foreign policy disasters would have been initiated on his watch.

Last edited by fnord (2014-06-03 17:54:26)

Everything else aside McCain was released as part of a prisoner swap, he's the last person who should be condemning this deal.  We got our guy home now let's find out exactly what the fuck happened and respond appropriately.

As you may have noticed from the carefully worded press releases he has not been released from protective custody yet and when the Secretary of Defense is being intentionally  vague on the subject you can bet your bottom dollar this is far from over.

Now that the members of Bergdahl's platoon, including his team leader, are speaking out, I think this guy is in deep kimchi.  Not only is he a deserter, but he may even be a collaborator.  I would go so far as to speculate that it is possible he was cooperating with the Taliban all along. They saw the chance to trade him for five of their top guys and they either threw him under the bus, or he volunteered to go back home and pretend he was a prisoner.  Just a possibility.

Last edited by phreddy (2014-06-04 12:00:48)

I agree his parents are freaks, but I can't blame them for doing or saying whatever they felt they needed to do while he was captive.  But did his dad have to say “Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahm,”  that means, “In the name of Allah, most Gracious, most Compassionate" while standing next to the president at the press circus about his son's release?

“I’m not saying this is clearly an easy choice but frankly I think a Republican, a president of either party, Republican or Democratic confronted with this opportunity to get back Sgt. Bergdahl, who is apparently in failing health, would have taken this opportunity to do this,” he added. “I think we would have made the same decision in the Bush administration.”

At last, a Republican makes a sensible statement!

fnord wrote:

Getting Bergdahl back is something that needed to be done; whether or not he needs to face military justice is a separate matter. Considering Ronald Raygun encouraged the Iranians to hold on to the embassy hostages in order to make Carter look bad, and then gave the Iranians weapons under the table in order to get the hostages returned on his watch, the Republicans need to shut up about possible irregularities surrounding this swap.

Shout out to Ollie North!  Represent!

Tall Paul wrote:

“I’m not saying this is clearly an easy choice but frankly I think a Republican, a president of either party, Republican or Democratic confronted with this opportunity to get back Sgt. Bergdahl, who is apparently in failing health, would have taken this opportunity to do this,” he added. “I think we would have made the same decision in the Bush administration.”

At last, a Republican makes a sensible statement!

I'm pretty sure Bush would never have taken that particular "adviser's" advice.  Obama came to congress with this lame brained idea a couple of years ago and he was sent home by both parties.  Nobody liked the plan because it was a shitty idea then and an even worse one now.

Em.  The battles in Afghanistan will soon be over after our retreat from that country, but war is not over for them or us.  These are terrorists who will continue plotting against us.  Read their rap sheets for yourself:

Mullah Mohammed Fazl, deputy defense minister. Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes while serving as a Taliban Army Chief of Staff and … was implicated in the murder of thousands of Shiites in northern Afghanistan during the Taliban reign.” He has “operational associations with significant al-Qaida and other extremist personnel,” was “involved in Taliban narcotics trafficking,” and is so senior in the Taliban hierarchy that he once threatened the Taliban’s supreme leader, Mullah Omar. Military officials assess that Fazl wields “considerable influence throughout the northern region of Afghanistan and his influence continued even after his capture” adding, “Will likely rejoin the Taliban and establish ties with anti-Coalition militias (ACM) participating in hostilities against US and Coalition forces in Afghanistan.”

Abdul Haq Wasiq, deputy minister of intelligence.  Wasiq “was central to the Taliban’s efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against US and Coalition forces.” He “utilized his office to support al-Qaida and to assist Taliban personnel elude capture…. arranged for al-Qaida personnel to train Taliban intelligence staff in intelligence methods” and “assigned al-Qaida members to the Taliban Ministry of Intelligence.” “He is likely to pose a threat to the US, its interests and allies.”

Mullah Norullah Noori, governor-general of Afghanistan's northern zone. Noori “is considered one of the most significant former Taliban officials detained at JTF-GTMO” who “led troops against US and Coalition forces” and “was directly subordinate to Taliban Supreme Leader Mullah Omar.”  He “is wanted by the UN for possible war crimes,” is “associated with members of al-Qaida,” and is assessed “to be a hardliner in his support of the Taliban philosophy.” He “continues to be a significant figure encouraging acts of aggression and his brother is currently a Taliban commander conducting operations against US and Coalition forces….


Mullah Khairullah Khairkhwa, Herat governor and acting interior minister. Khairkhwa was “directly associated to Usama Bin Laden (UBL) and Taliban Supreme Commander Mullah Muhammad Omar” and was “trusted and respected by both.” After 9/11 he “represented the Taliban during meetings with Iranian officials seeking to support hostilities against US and Coalition forces” and “attended a meeting at the direction of UBL, reportedly accompanied by members of HAMAS.” He is “one of the premier opium drug lords in Western Afghanistan” and was likely “associated with a militant training camp in Herat operated by deceased al-Qaida commander (in Iraq) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.”

Mohammad Nabi, multiple leadership roles. Nabi is “a senior Taliban official” who was “a member of a joint al-Qaida/Taliban ACM cell in Khowst and was involved in attacks against US and Coalition forces.” He “held weekly meetings” with “three al-Qaida affiliated individuals” to discuss anti-coalition plans, “maintained weapons caches,” and “facilitated two al-Qaida operatives smuggling an unknown number of missiles along the highway between Jalalabad and Peshawar,” which intelligence officials believe contributed to the deaths of two Americans.

phreddy wrote:

Em.  The battles in Afghanistan will soon be over after our retreat from that country, but war is not over for them or us.  These are terrorists who will continue plotting against us.  Read their rap sheets for yourself:

"possibly", "implicated", "believed", "likely"

Never charged, tried or convicted.  We have the Hague for a reason, either try them or release them - that's the rules mate.

Last edited by Emmeran (2014-06-05 20:11:53)

What does that have to do with anything?  Was he your uncle or something?

Fuck, can you and Coulter get anymore random?

phreddy wrote:

Emmeran wrote:

What does that have to do with anything?  Was he your uncle or something?

Fuck, can you and Coulter get anymore random?

You apparently don't realize how blase' most Americans are about the crime of desertion.  Many think its' akin to telling your boss to take this job and shove it.  Slovik's story is a little reminder of how serious the military is about it.  I doubt the firing squad is a realistic consequence, but 20 years to life in Leavenworth is a real possibility.

Wait,what?  Internet dipshit telling a former Marine about the seriousness of desertion? As for what civilians think of it, none of us give a rat's ass.

There is a good reason they stopped shooting deserters nearly 70 years ago.  They've stopped floggings too you know.

Wait,what?  Internet dipshit telling a former Marine about the seriousness of desertion?

Go fuck yourself Ranger.
Phreddy, E-5 Gunner's Mate
Vietnam Veteran

Emmeran wrote:

What I don't understand is why anyone would care what that wrinkly cunt Coulter has to say about it and why you would post her comments here if you aren't trolling to start a political argument.

Coulter's account wasn't overtly political.  I posted her version because it was short and to the point.  The point being that desertion in the face of the enemy is actually a capital crime.  I seriously believe Obama wanted to pass this guy off as a hero in order to deflect the heat he is taking over the Veterans Administration fiasco, but didn't have a clue regarding the shit storm he would cause.

XregnaR wrote:

phreddy wrote:

Wait,what?  Internet dipshit telling a former Marine about the seriousness of desertion?

Go fuck yourself Ranger.
Phreddy, E-5 Gunner's Mate
Vietnam Veteran

Aaand you're still an internet dipshit.

Go stick your head in the sand.  We'll call you when it's safe to tune back in to reality.

phreddy wrote:

I seriously believe Obama wanted to pass this guy off as a hero in order to deflect the heat he is taking over the Veterans Administration fiasco, but didn't have a clue regarding the shit storm he would cause.

If Obama burps the right-wing media will call it a scandal and start a shit storm; most of the logical world has become extremely bored with their three year old tantrums.  And lets face it the left will do the same once the tables are turned.  Our only POW was brought home, end of story and please pass the biscuits.