ptah13 wrote:

What amazes me is that you fall for the same "a vote for McCain is 4 more years of Bush" mentality that the propaganda machine is spreading.

You do realize that the Republican core has been trying DESPERATELY to keep McCain from the nomination, not just this year but successfully in 2000? Don't you wonder why? The party realizes that McCain is hardly the party line-tower that Bush is. They couldn't be more night-and-day (Bush and McCain) as far as any two republican politicians could be.

In 2000 McCain lost the nomination because of the Evangelical vote (among other issues the right had with him). McCain wouldn't change his political beliefs to suit the needs of the overzealous religious wack-jobs that Bush appealed to. On top of that, McCain found himself left-of-center on many issues. Campaign finance reform, abortion, the initial Bush tax cut (although supported extending it as it would be a tax increase to remove it), the environment, immigration reform (working with TED KENNEDY, no less, which is like the antichrist to many far-right wingers), anti-torture legislation (voted against waterboarding on another bill, yep Bush sure loved that), etc etc... You can claim a guy is bi-partisan but McCain can back it up with his record, the other guy.. ehhh.. not-so-much.

Point being that saying Bush and McCain are the same monster just make a person sound like they are reading off the 2008 Obama talk points cheat-sheet.

You say you are passionate about keeping McCain out of office because of the last 8 years but do you realize what McCain + a democrat congress equals? Well, the far-right do and that's why they are pissed as hell that he's their nominee.

How many times has Obama voted against the majority of his party, I wonder?

Again, there is a reason the far-right are REALLY upset about the McCain nomination. That should tell you something. People have been clamoring for a REAL bipartisan president for the last 20 years and here you actually have one, not just somebody claiming to be bipartisan. Again, his voting record speaks for itself.

Not wanting to get assraped for just commenting on a small portion of your post, I will say that I see your point (thanks for the curry reference, they don't have good curry at 7am in my neck of the woods dammit) is valid but I still believe she used a poor choice of words, if in fact her point was "I haven't had much to be proud of".

What amazes me is that you fall for the "maverick" bullshit.  Can you name a single thing that he's bucked his party on that he didn't sell out on in order to be President? 

Campaign finance reform?  Nope.  He broke his own law. 
Immigration?  He stated publicly that he wouldn't vote for his own law. 
Abortion?  When did he buck the party?  He's pro-choice, anti-stemcell, life begins at conception. 
Torture?  He created anti-torture legislation then stated publicly and voted that there should be no legal limits on torture, that we should leave it up to the President. 
Environment?  Well, sort of, I guess. He doesn't deny the existence of Global Warming, but he's already said that he's willing to drill in ANWR, which was one of his "principled" environmental stances, and he's all for offshore drilling, another one, although to be fair he's flip-flopped on that one at least three times, so maybe he'll be against it again.

As for bipartisanism, go check Obama's record.  It's shorter, but he also has a history of working with both sides of the aisle for common causes.  The aforementioned loose nukes legislation was primarily him working with Dick Durbin (and a few others, I'm not going to go look it up).

I never said that he would be four more years of Bush.   I think in many ways he would be worse. 

He's way too quick to rattle sabers with anyone who passes by (his visual acuity is based on movement, so if you're really still he won't notice), and all of his advisors are lobbyists (see Randy Scheunemann).  He wants to battle terrorists in Iraq, but can't be bothered to learn the difference between Shia and Sunni Muslims, and he thinks the Surge worked, but has no concept of the political realities of Iraq.  (see: Anbar Awakening, Massive egress of Kurds from parliament, Muqtada al-Sadr, massive displacement and segregation, inequity in oil revenues)

Also, his economic plan is a joke at best (exactly how is he going to cut a trillion dollars in spending to pay for his new tax cuts while continuing the war in Iraq and increasing military operations in Afghanistan?), his health care plan would leave millions with little or no coverage while removing the coverage that many receive currently, and his idea of sound environmental policy is to suggest that we build a nuclear reactor in every state.  He's even planning on pushing for the old Bush Social Security privatization that was such a miserable failure, even when Bush had decent approval ratings. 

Oh, yeah, and on top of all that, he's seventy-two fucking years old.  I give him 50-50 odds that he'll be dead, incapacitated, or have pudding for brains by the time he finishes his first term.  Do you feel lucky, punk?  Well?  Do ya?

ptah13 wrote:

For this reason, I didn't bother to check out the new Gallactica. Now I keep hearing how great it is and now this photo (you say) is what constitutes a Cylon on the modern show?

Well, like this rampantly cakefarted thread, it's already over, so look for it on DVD or something.

pALEPHx wrote:

ptah13 wrote:

For this reason, I didn't bother to check out the new Gallactica. Now I keep hearing how great it is and now this photo (you say) is what constitutes a Cylon on the modern show?

Well, like this rampantly cakefarted thread, it's already over, so look for it on DVD or something.

No, it's not over.  The second half of the final season will air in 2009 I believe.  If anyone who watched the show hasn't completely forgotten about it by then a few of us might even watch it.

I was responding to phausPHx's bullshit suggestion that the last 8 years have left one with little to be proud of in America.

ORLY?  What are the high points IYNSHO?

Dmtdust wrote:

I was responding to phausPHx's bullshit suggestion that the last 8 years have left one with little to be proud of in America.

ORLY?  What are the high points IYNSHO?

Forget it, Dusty.  Zookeeper will accept only one context for "pride" that includes taking everything from the dawn of time into account, so in his mind if you say the last 8 years haven't left you much to be proud of what you're really saying is, "I'm such a weak-spined individual that a few bad years make me hate everything the US has ever stood for."

Dmtdust wrote:

I was responding to phausPHx's bullshit suggestion that the last 8 years have left one with little to be proud of in America.

ORLY? 

Zookeeper wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

Forget it, Dusty.  Zookeeper will accept only one context for "pride" that includes taking everything from the dawn of time into account, so in his mind if you say the last 8 years haven't left you much to be proud of what you're really saying is, "I'm such a weak-spined individual that a few bad years make me hate everything the US has ever stood for."

What's so hard about the concept for you toejam?  Where did I say anything about hate or equate a lack of pride with hatred? 

I'm sorry.  Clearly I'm just not sensitive enough.  Let's all shed a tear for the poor Emo-Patriots who whine that they just can't feel proud of their country anymore because they don't like what the current administration has done.

There's nothing hard for me to understand about it, the problem is with you.  By insisting that only your context can be used you're putting words in other people's mouths, so that it's pointless to try to argue with you because we won't be arguing about the same thing.

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America

Love It  or  Leave It

I blame big titties.

choad wrote:

MSG Tripps wrote:

America

Love It  or  Leave It

https://cruelery.com/sidepic/US-SR.jpg

Sold!

I'm sorry, there was only one at that price.  Can I interest you in a slightly used Zimbabwe?

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Johnny_Rotten wrote:

https://cruelery.com/uploads/359_2008-0 … _obama.jpg

Accidental Goatse?

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Figures. The homo thing goes hand in hand with the satanic icons.  Isn't the culture jamming artiste who came up with the Obama logo style really a minion of satan?  For turning street art into just a cheap hustle.















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Last edited by Johnny_Rotten (2008-08-18 16:58:38)

tojo2000 wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

I was responding to phausPHx's bullshit suggestion that the last 8 years have left one with little to be proud of in America.

ORLY?  What are the high points IYNSHO?

Forget it, Dusty.  Zookeeper will accept only one context for "pride" that includes taking everything from the dawn of time into account, so in his mind if you say the last 8 years haven't left you much to be proud of what you're really saying is, "I'm such a weak-spined individual that a few bad years make me hate everything the US has ever stood for."

That's my point about Mrs Obama. She wasn't just talking about the last 8 years.

Yes, I realize that I didn't personally beat the Soviet hockey team. I realize that I personally didn't pull off the vault of my life on one foot. I realize that I didn't personally donate more money than any country in the world in the wake of the tsunami. There is a difference between personal pride and pride for one's country and countrymen. I can say, "I'm proud to be an American" when I'm told my country gives more than any other when it comes to helping those in the 3rd world.

This is what confuses me. I'm not sure what is going through Michelle's head when she hears that we gave more to tsunami victims than any other country. I'm saddened that she must be so bitter that no event in her life has ever made her think, "wow, this really is a great country".

That's what confused me, above, about the comment about the person not actually participating in the examples (Olympic) that can invoke someone to be proud of their country. That's the whole point of being proud to be an American. If you actually did the things,  you'd be proud to be yourself. Learn the difference between self pride and pride for one's countrymen. Maybe then you'll feel better. There's still hope for you guys. If only you are willing to change. I have hope you'll change and then America will be place where you can have pride.  You can be proud of your country and still think your current elected officials suck. One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.

Do you think I'm going to become a self-loathing American once Obama gets elected? No.. Hell, I don't think my pride level will change one bit no matter who gets elected. On one hand, I think Obama is a poser but I'll be proud that a black man was elected to the highest position of power on the planet (question: How many black men have even elected to President or Prime Minister of any Western Euro country?). Anyway, again, if Obama gets elected, no matter how I feel about his qualifications, I'm going to be proud as hell to be an American (even though I think he is incredibly ignorant when it comes to international affairs. To think one can reason with extremist islamic fundys... sad). You see, I can say, "man I'm really proud, as an American, than we elect and nominate people of color to higher positions than any western country" without saying I've never been one bit proud to be an American.

Also, if you didn't already know this, Europe is way more bigoted than we are. You ever hear average-joe British dude talk about muslims? same goes for the French. I've heard a gaggle of old British women foam at the mouth about what should be done to every muslim on Earth. It's not pretty. What is worse is that, while I feel we are becoming less bigoted, it seems Europe is going the other direction. I've spent most of my life in Indiana, once the capital of the KKK. Areas where once a black person dare not go, now have desegregated and have proportionate minority populations. It makes me proud to be an American to know that I have nieces and nephews going to schools with a wide array of culture that, when I was a child, had not a single person of color attending the school (with a graduation class of over 1,500 kids the year I graduated). Now, in these areas, children aren't growing up with ignorant fears/opinions of other races, like they did when I was  younger (note: my school was part of the 80's desegregation movement, I'm referencing the next school district over from mine where my relatives attened).

That's another thing that chaps my ass. We are always told (most often by self-hating, euro-loving leftist in our own country) how much better and more "free" Europe is than America. Have you seen some of Frances personal liberty laws? Or Germanys? I wonder what happens if I say, "I'm not so sure that the holocaust was as bad as they say" in Germany? Yeah, I go to jail (note, I know the holocaust was as bad as they say, this was just an example). Any idea how many books are banned across Europe because they say something someone doesn't like?

Sorry, way off topic, but not really. Just another reason why our country supposedly sucks real bad but is still better than most any other.

I find it funny how some movie actor/actress threatens to leave if the election doesn't go his or her way but then never really does move... Must be that, even though we suck, we still don't suck as bad as everyone else.

If you don't like it here, move to France. Or Germany...

Ok, off soapbox/rant...

ps- man, I sure ran the gambit of off/topic crap. I'm not surprised if I get berated... I deserve it (damn, see I'm already starting to self-loath... is it contagious? Is it spread via high-street?).

tojo2000 wrote:

If we all work together we can end the self-loathing.  You loathe my back, I'll loathe yours.

I love you, man.