I kin haz Chinook nao?

MSG Tripps wrote:

There you go; more justification for Blackwater [et al] program[s].
Not enough troops to cover the mission.

The balance between current [past, future] agenda success and no initiation of a draft at any cost.

Never a draft, because the brass couldn't assume its blind loyalty?

I'm curious, Dhal. Think your average NG unit would comply with orders to fire on unarmed US civilians?

MSG Tripps wrote:

That is not to say it did not happen before or after Kent State; however, I can not remember another situation.

1992 LA Riots

GooberMcNutly wrote:

I find a full pod of hellfire missiles does wonders for keeping the bread lines in order.

The AGM 114 Hellfire is a rail-launched weapon, rockets come in pods (Zuni)

Emmeran wrote:

The AGM 114 Hellfire is a rail-launched weapon, rockets come in pods (Zuni)

The Hellfires are on the inside under the stubbies in the first image.

Last edited by MSG Tripps (2008-10-05 09:14:09)

MSG Tripps wrote:

Emmeran wrote:

1992 LA Riots

Student types?

Rodney King riots, several unarmed "gang bangers" were engaged with squad weapons.

The results were predictable.

MSG Tripps wrote:

Rotor Head?

Ordie

choad wrote:

MSG Tripps wrote:

There you go; more justification for Blackwater [et al] program[s].
Not enough troops to cover the mission.

The balance between current [past, future] agenda success and no initiation of a draft at any cost.

Never a draft, because the brass couldn't assume its blind loyalty?

I'm curious, Dhal. Think your average NG unit would comply with orders to fire on unarmed US civilians?

https://cruelery.com/sidepic/kentstate1970.jpg

Being originally from Ohio, I loathe what happened at Kent State, but I still blame Governor James Ford Rhodes for calling the NG out, and the Generals that ordered the live ammo, more than I blame the scared kids facing the protesters.

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

Emmeran wrote:

Baywolfe wrote:

Being originally from Ohio, I loathe what happened at Kent State, but I still blame Governor James Ford Rhodes for calling the NG out, and the Generals that ordered the live ammo, more than I blame the scared kids facing the protesters.

It's always the commanders fault; that responsibility comes with the authority.

Sorry, but everyone with an M1 Garand at that little picnic had a choice at that moment.  All along with their officers should of been tried for murder.

Psychological studies are not value statements, Emmeran. Soldiers are trained to follow orders, but breaking the law is still breaking the law. If the soldiers had been ordered to steal cars and sell them to a chop shop, there would be no confusion - the whole damned lot of them would have gone to jail. Murder, however, is what soldiers are supposed to do, so how can it be a crime? But it is. You can get Aristotelian about the causality, or juridical about apportioning the blame, but those kids were shot in cold blood and the boys who pulled the triggers were by definition murderers. The generals and the politicians may have ordered the hit, but the hitmen took the contract. Were they insane? No more than any hitmen. Were they coerced? No more than the members of any gang. From the day they signed up, their actions were predicated on individual choice, and they should each have stood trial for their individual blame.

I believe it's like our Code of Service Discipline.
Probably contains something to the effect of:
...must obey all lawful orders...
Which wouldn't, to my mind, apply here.

So...I agree with you...and you tell me I'm wrong. Could you be a little more specific?

MSG Tripps wrote:

WilberCuntLicker wrote:

Could you be a little more specific?

Naw.  I don't feel like rising to the bait, eh old boy?

Bait? Bait?
Shit - now we're both confused.

Emmeran wrote:

That would be warfare theory for you.

Weren't you talking about Kent State? I don't remember there being a war on at the time...at least, not a civil war.
Military law is, in Canada at least, a subset of our system of jurisprudence, and soldiers, though subject to military law, are still citizens subject and responsible to civil law. Thus does a civilized nation attempt to ensure that its military does not become an autonomous sphere of flexible morality wherein concepts such as murder and torture are mitigated or justified by the uniform. Following orders is not an excuse for murder - it's still your finger on the trigger.

WilberCuntLicker wrote:

Emmeran wrote:

That would be warfare theory for you.

Weren't you talking about Kent State?

Kent State, Army of the North, its all the same.

The point is if you train someone to react a certain way in a certain situation you should not the persecute them for following your will.  Prosecution of the individual troops for conditioned reactions during the fog of war was introduced by the extreme left as an anti-war measure.  The reality is it is an anti-troop measure.

A jury of their peers would condemn but not convict, for their peers would understand the fog of war and the ever present reality of trained reactions.  The fault lies with those who would commit assault troops vs civilians, much as the owner of a starving pit bull is at fault for leaving the animal alone all day with a baby.

We are proven creatures of conditioning, we condition these young men to be the most effective warriors possible and then second guess those trained reactions when the balloon goes up.

You will never be able to convince me that conditioned actions commited in the heat of confrontation can be considered murder, man-slaughter maybe, but not murder.   The people and the politico's need to understand that you don't play with loaded weapons.

sigmoid freud wrote:

Baywolfe wrote:

I still blame Governor James Ford Rhodes for calling the NG out, and the Generals that ordered the live ammo, more than I blame the scared kids facing the protesters.

"Scared" or brainwashed?

During a press conference, Governor Rhodes called the protesters un-American and referred to the protesters as revolutionaries set on destroying higher education in Ohio. "They're worse than the brown shirts and the communist element and also the nightriders and the vigilantes," Rhodes said. "They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America."

Thank you sir - my point exactly.

(however "Brainwashed" is a harsh word for someone who serves at your {the public's} whim)

sigmoid freud wrote:

Emmeran wrote:

I would expect the laser guided/fragmentation varient to be deployed with the "Army of the North".

Hellfires are hella expensive. What's wrong with good old fashioned napalm?

http://www.gallerym.com/images/work/big … 6872_L.jpg

Really the only problem is that some knucklehead sold the public on the idea of selective warfare with zero collateral damage - sounds almost like a Star Trek episode.

sigmoid freud wrote:

Emmeran wrote:

I would expect the laser guided/fragmentation varient to be deployed with the "Army of the North".

Hellfires are hella expensive. What's wrong with good old fashioned napalm?

For one Napalm sucks to work with and is dangerous as hell shipboard or on the flightline, I'll vote for your good old Mk-80 series General Purpose Bomb.  Cheap, easy to store, easy to deliver and highly effective in a variety of configurations.

But cluster bombs are sexy too . . .



Now, "New and Improved with Clean Battlefield Technology"

This has gotten really sick.

[U.S. Army Lt. Col. Darrel Vandeveld] is at least the fourth prosecutor to resign from the [Guantánamo] tribunals. Others have accused superiors of political meddling or deliberately misleading senior civilian Pentagon officials about the quality of evidence against defendants.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27200615/