Give me a fucking break.  You can't convince me that any Jap interrogator got hanged only for waterboarding.  Sure, this was listed as one of the charges just like running stop signs are listed as offenses when bank robbers flee from the cops.  Intimidation is not torture, even if it scares the shit out of you and you're sure you're going to die.  But you don't and you're just fine an hour later. 

If you want to know more about real Japanese torture, go to the Judgment issued by the Military Tribunal for the Far East.  Check out the Atrocities section.

And for those who think Club Gitmo is ill treatment of prisoners, read this Tribunal interview of a British Colonel:

The lack of proper accommodation, the treatment of the sick, and the inhumane treatment of prisoners engaged in connection with construction of the railway, which is typical of Japanese treatment of prisoners of war, is described by the witness, Colonel Wild, who was kept on this project until November 1943. Colonel Wild, who, by reason of his knowledge of Japanese, acted as liaison officer between the prisoners of war and the Japanese officers, visited many of the camps in which the prisoners were kept, and had a first-hand knowledge of the treatment accorded them. The following extract from his evidence graphically describes conditions:


Q. Substantially, was there any difference between the living conditions and treatment of prisoners of war in these various camps?
A. None.
Q. Will you describe one of them as an example?
A. When I entered Songkrei camp on the third of August 1943, I went first to a very large hut accommodating about 700 men. The hut was of the usual pattern. On each side of an earthen gangway there was a 12-foot wide sleeping platform made of split bamboo. The roof was inadequately made with an insufficient quantity of palm leaves. which let the rain through almost everywhere. There were no walls, and a stream of water was running down the earthen gangway. The framework of the hut was bamboo tied with creeper.

In this hut were 700 sick men. They were lying two deep along each side of the hut on the split bamboo platform. Their bodies were touching one another down the whole length of the hut. They were all very thin and practically naked. In the middle of the hut were about 150 men suffering from tropical ulcers. These commonly stripped the whole of the flesh from a man's leg from the knee to the ankle. There was an almost overwhelming smell of putrefaction. The only dressings available were banana leaves tied around with puttees, and the only medicine was hot water. There was another hut further up the hill of similar design in which so-called fit men were kept, and one well-roofed and better constructed hut occupied by the Japanese guards.

Q. Was any bedding supplied?
A. None whatever.

Q. What did they have to cover them from the rain?
A. When we first entered these working camps, none of them were roofed at all for the first few weeks. The monsoon had already broken, and during those weeks the men had nothing whatever to cover themselves from the rain except banana leaves. If they were strong enough, each man cut a couple of banana leaves and put them over his own body.

Q. Was any roofing material ever received?
A. In my own camp, if which I was in command, Lower Niki, we got a lorry load of atap palm, which was enough to roof half the hut in which the worst of the sick were lying. In Niki Camp no atap palm was ever received, but we got some rotten, leaking canvas. In the other four camps, after a few weeks, about enough atap palm was supplied to roof all the huts with about half the amount that was necessary. Again, this does not apply to the Japanese and Korean guards, who always had a proper roof over them.

Q. By the middle of July 1943, that is, ten weeks after you had left Singapore, what was the state of "F" Force as a whole?
A. We had 1700 deaths by that time, and 700 men out of the 7,000 were going out to work. Of these 700, we British officers considered that 350 should have been lying down sick.

of the 36k US prisoners, 6k came out. 

I am not advocating hanging for anyone, but it is a fun point.  Prison yes, hanging no.

Thousands of our own troops are waterboarded each year as part of their advanced training in resisting interrogations.  Nobody dies.  Not our soldiers, not the enemy.  However, 10 snowboarders die each year.  Maybe we should ban snowboarding and throw the manufacturers in jail.

phreddy wrote:

Thousands of our own troops are waterboarded each year as part of their advanced training in resisting interrogations.  Nobody dies.  Not our soldiers, not the enemy.  However, 10 snowboarders die each year.  Maybe we should ban snowboarding and throw the manufacturers in jail.

Phreddy, you ignorant slut.  The whole point of torture is NOT to kill the victim.

Wahooo!


Fall Guys Found!


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7474412&page=1

Psychologists Told CIA Waterboarding Was Safe

Has anyone heard that it wasn't safe?  Obviously there is no lasting physical damage.  Did we scar the psyches of those poor terrorists?  Are all of the liberals on this board in such lockstep with the Democrat leadership that they are afraid to call this what it is, a politically motivated witch hunt?

Taint wrote:

phreddy wrote:

Psychologists Told CIA Waterboarding Was Safe

Has anyone heard that it wasn't safe?  Obviously there is no lasting physical damage.  Did we scar the psyches of those poor terrorists?  Are all of the liberals on this board in such lockstep with the Democrat leadership that they are afraid to call this what it is, a politically motivated witch hunt?

I love hearing Repugs worry about witch hunts.

What Taint said.

Torture is torture.  'nuff said.

Dmtdust wrote:

I mean, even your Gawd, Reagan's DOJ prosecuted a sheriff for water-boarding and defined it as torture.  Enough of your BS Phwedd, you know it's wrong, and you don't want the perps to pay the piper, right?

When is it not Torture?  The first one is free?  After that it's torture?  You know what torture is?  Trying to figure out your logic.  That's Torture.

Golly, I didn't realize you had so much concern for the feelings of those trying to kill us.  Too bad waterboarding isn't the worst thing any interrogator in the world does to a prisoner.  Torture is what we call it, but calling it torture doesn't make it evil.  It does, however, make it a convenient political expedient.  Don't be such a good soldier Dusty.

My stepfather was waterboarded by the Japanese in POW/concentration camp.  He differed greatly with your view Phwedd.  With that said, you are dodging (again). 

Step up Phwedd, maybe we can get you and Sean Hannity to donate a few hours of mutual "enhanced" interrogation together.

If you read any of the actual literature on torture, you'd know this stuff makes people say what you want them to say, like anything.  Not real info, but BS.  You really need to keep up to speed.

Dmtdust wrote:

My stepfather was waterboarded by the Japanese in POW/concentration camp.  He differed greatly with your view Phwedd.  With that said, you are dodging (again). 

Step up Phwedd, maybe we can get you and Sean Hannity to donate a few hours of mutual "enhanced" interrogation together.

If you read any of the actual literature on torture, you'd know this stuff makes people say what you want them to say, like anything.  Not real info, but BS.  You really need to keep up to speed.

Dusty, maybe you should ask your stepfather how bad the waterboarding was compared to the rest of the treatment he had at the hands of the Japs.

And Taint, it is noble of you to want us to be better than our enemies, but sometimes it just isn't practical.  If your logic was valid then we wouldn't shoot them just because they are shooting at us.  We're better than that, aren't we?  And as for information, the notion that torture doesn't yield results is just plain bullshit.  If the ruling party would release the other shoe, being the results of the waterboarding, you would know.  But, they would rather you rail against "Repugs" rather than demand protection of the interests of this country.

Last edited by phreddy (2009-05-01 14:18:44)

Dmtdust wrote:

He's dead Phwedd.  He didn't have any preference in what the Japanese did, his view there is no "better form" of torture. 

Did you ever pay any attention in Civics class?  Have you never read the Geneva Conventions?

Why are you siding with this?  If it were Democrats I would still want their guts fror garters.  Are you that driven by partisanship you'd surrender your humanity and basic decency to defend criminals?  Seriously?

The agreements in Geneva were exactly that, agreements.  You must have more than one party to an agreement.  An agreement is not a one-sided pledge to do anything.  Agreeing unilaterally not to sweat information out of terrorists is a little like the idiots here in California who think we can stop global warming by shutting down all the state's industry.  It is naive and silly.

I agree with Shepard Smith.



Anything to be said beyond that is irrelevant.