#2 2010-03-06 16:10:45
California is in the shithole because of a near Perfect Storm Of Stupidities. Prop 13 was an overcorrection to soaring property taxes, which limited revenue. California responded by financing via bonds and user fees. The state owes a shitload in interest payments that will never be paid off. The user fees have driven businesses out, reducing the tax base and number of jobs. California has a two-term limit for political offices, which means lack of stability in State government. Only the most venal assholes run for office, and they see any position as a stepping-stone that must be quickly exploited in order to move to the next level. As a result, they really don’t give a shit about their current position. And of course, there is the stupidity of doing nothing about the freeloading Mexicans who are on Welfare, Section 8, Wic, Food Stamps, MediCal and every other entitlement program. The hordes of Mexican aliens have also overwhelmed the school, health care, and criminal justice systems and they don’t pay enough in taxes or fees to cover the costs of these services.
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#3 2010-03-06 22:02:18
And without the cheap illegal labor, California's biggest industry and income source, agriculture, collapses. Your solution to that, if you please?
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#4 2010-03-06 23:17:05
sigmoid freud wrote:
And without the cheap illegal labor, California's biggest industry and income source, agriculture, collapses. Your solution to that, if you please?
Deport the Mexicans and pay citizens a living wage to work in agriculture. The agribusiness concerns are just transferring the costs of doing business onto the public dime with their current practices. Without the Mexicans, crime and the cost of dealing with it will go way down. Without illegals burdening the school system with large numbers of children who need special help because of lack of English comprehension, the cost of public education will plummet. And of course the cost of all forms of welfare and the workers needed to administer it will come down when only citizens and their children are using the system. Yes, food will cost a little more, but it will be offset by lower taxes once services and imprisonment are no longer being provided for people who have no business being in America.
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#5 2010-03-06 23:55:04
fnord wrote:
Deport the Mexicans and pay citizens a living wage to work in agriculture.
That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. How, oh wise one, do you propose making the Lords of California (the agriculture industry) do any such thing?
Last edited by sigmoid freud (2010-03-07 00:05:37)
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#6 2010-03-07 00:04:46
sigmoid freud wrote:
fnord wrote:
Deport the Mexicans and pay citizens a living wage to work in agriculture.
That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. How, oh wise one, do you propose making the Lords of California Agriculture do any such thing?
Once the American government did its job and forced the Mexicans to leave the country, The Lords Of California Agriculture would have no choice but to pay a living wage to citizens. There's no shortage of ignorant kneegrows and White trash who could do the work if the pay was high enough for them to live on. Underpaid labor by illegals is the new slavery, and like the previous form of slavery, the costs to society outweigh any benefits to the slave masters.
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#7 2010-03-07 00:08:57
fnord wrote:
sigmoid freud wrote:
fnord wrote:
Deport the Mexicans and pay citizens a living wage to work in agriculture.
That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. How, oh wise one, do you propose making the Lords of California Agriculture do any such thing?
Once the American government did its job and forced the Mexicans to leave the country, The Lords Of California Agriculture would have no choice but to pay a living wage to citizens. There's no shortage of ignorant kneegrows and White trash who could do the work if the pay was high enough for them to live on. Underpaid labor by illegals is the new slavery, and like the previous form of slavery, the costs to society outweigh any benefits to the slave masters.
Sorry, son, but you are not talking about family farmers, you're talking about Big Business. They care not about "slavery", just profit. They'd just move everything overseas. Bought any USA made shirts, socks or underwear lately?
(edit: Actually, I have, and quite comfy: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/6 … x?a=548882)
Last edited by sigmoid freud (2010-03-07 00:13:50)
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#8 2010-03-07 02:45:05
sigmoid freud wrote:
And without the cheap illegal labor, California's biggest industry and income source, agriculture, collapses. Your solution to that, if you please?
Tell the folks down in Compton that their welfare check is waiting way down there at the end of that row of tomatoes.
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#9 2010-03-07 11:31:36
Emmeran wrote:
sigmoid freud wrote:
And without the cheap illegal labor, California's biggest industry and income source, agriculture, collapses. Your solution to that, if you please?
Tell the folks down in Compton that their welfare check is waiting way down there at the end of that row of tomatoes.
Workfare, it is a beautiful thing.
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#11 2010-03-08 19:17:52
California is the land of the illegals. Maybe we just notice the Mexicans more, but the number of Indians and Asians that are in this state (illegally) are in the hundreds of thousands (probably more) per large city.
People who argue about illegal immigrants taking away our jobs is ridiculous. If anyone actually cared that "they took oourr jjeerrbs" then the bigger issue to focus on would be all the over seas jobs. Not only are customer service jobs more desirable and higher paying (compared to say, strawberry picking) but as you can clearly tell from the shitty quality assurance - anyone can have a career in technical service. Don't forget about the benefits that come with jobs such as customer service .
But that wasn't my point. My point is, the real issue is the unpaid taxes, the use (and destroying) of public transportation, public sanitation, public schooling, public/government funding/assistance, and public area (parks, streets, buildings, etc), and not to mention crime/laws/police/jails. All of which are funded by people who, for the most part, don't fuck up, over run, or take advantage of these things. I guess if you know you put money into something you tend to want to make the most of its value.
What do you think of when you hear the world, "public transportation" or "unemployment benefits" I am sure I could take a guess.
People can live off of the nothing salary from picking produce all day when they are crammed together in a house or apartment, fit 6 to a Toyota truck (not registered, not carrying insurance, and all chipping in for gas) on the way to work, steal tools from the job sight, and have 1 cousin who owns the market on main street, 3 cousins running a baby-sitting job from their homes, and a head nod between the bus driver equals a free ride. Ah, free ride.
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#12 2010-03-08 19:30:13
All of these statements are correct to one extent or another, that's just the way it is - both sides are somewhat correct.
One of the core issues facing California is that large cities tend to become money pits; that's a cold hard fact. Changing that reality is difficult and rooting out the rot is a major task.
It's human nature to become less involved in the situation as the situation grows more crowded.
I propose we bring back Death Race 2000...
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#13 2010-03-09 12:36:17
California needs to go bankrupt and allow a court to step in and reorganize the state's structure, union contracts, and entitlement programs. The legislature is moribund. The public employee's unions run the state and they are not about to allow anyone to cut their wages or benefits. The average state worker makes a little over $62,000 plus major benefits. The average California household makes about $59,000, and most of those include two wage earners who receive far fewer benefits. Right now the state is trying to steal over a $billion from the cities, who are having to lay off their employees so the state won't have to cut employment or programs. The whole place is fucked up and that is why we do not need a cuss free week.
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#14 2010-03-09 12:47:30
Don't forget our precious propositions with mandated expenditures.
We have the highest tax rate in the nation at this point and are still sieving money, government has doubled in size during the last 10 years and still we wonder why we are broke.
While I don't think tearing it down will work I do think we need to look at expenditures in an entirely new way, nothing save for interest payments should be protected.
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#15 2010-03-09 14:12:34
Emmeran wrote:
Don't forget our precious propositions with mandated expenditures.
We have the highest tax rate in the nation at this point and are still sieving money, government has doubled in size during the last 10 years and still we wonder why we are broke.
While I don't think tearing it down will work I do think we need to look at expenditures in an entirely new way, nothing save for interest payments should be protected.
Although I agree, I don't think it will happen unless some outside force, like a bankruptcy court, steps in and mandates the changes.
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#17 2010-03-09 15:55:26
California's problems are damn complicated, and that's why Emm is right that there is some truth in each of the comments here. You can point in almost any direction and find that some of the fault lies there.
The way it has worked out for California really does challenge the viability of the referendum and direct democracy approach. People (1) want it all, and (2) don't want to pay for it. Surprise, surprise.
Of course, leaving it to the bankruptcy court is to put your trust in judicial activism (not that there is a political solution on the horizon).
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#18 2010-03-10 08:30:54
Fled wrote:
The way it has worked out for California really does challenge the viability of the referendum and direct democracy approach. People (1) want it all, and (2) don't want to pay for it. Surprise, surprise.
Then comes that magical day when 51% of the voters realize that all they have to do is keep voting for the same pushers to give them free bread and circuses and all will be sunny and magical in the world. Free money for everyone! Well, except for those rich bastards who run the video rental place that are always hating on them not having enough real money to actually buy anything and yell at you just for trying to use your WIC check to rent Blood Simple. Like WIC checks aren't almost exactly like money anyways....
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