#51 2011-03-16 20:15:09

Tall Paul wrote:

For one thing, how many trolls live under this particular bridge.

I'm not trolling you.  I just come from a place you have never been.

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#52 2011-03-16 20:31:02

If that's out of your ass, then I agree.

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#53 2011-03-16 21:02:41

Tall Paul wrote:

If that's out of your ass, then I agree.

I am so sorry you are upset over your current situation. 
Just relax, man.  I'm trying not to fuck with you...  unless you insist upon talking shit.

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#54 2011-03-16 21:16:15

So, are you saying the difference between the spirit and the letter of the law is opaque to you? Or that being seen to uphold the law is less important than actually upholding it? My point is that the military is not handling the situation well.

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#55 2011-03-16 21:41:43

Tall Paul wrote:

My point is that the military is not handling the situation well.

The point is; what are they doing that is incorrect?
Not liking something does not make it wrong.
Continuing trolling if you wish.

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#56 2011-03-16 21:53:50

What they are doing wrong is allowing a situation wherein they look as if they are punishing a prisoner before court-martial. That's the kind of thing I was taught only happened in the Soviet Union, not in America. In the mean time, what are they doing? Looking for more evidence?

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#57 2011-03-16 22:15:46

choad wrote:

phreddy wrote:

I'm not sure what Wall Street, that liberal bastion, has to do with our treatment of traitors.  But there is one important universal rule of incarceration.  It is always open season on cop killers, pedophiles, and traitors.  It makes no difference what country you are in, the rule is pretty much universal.

Like speaking to a brick wall, isn't it Dusty?

And How.  Made me smile!

D

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

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#58 2011-03-16 22:39:41

The points:

"I, Bradley Manning, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

1.  He did knowingly and intentionally forfeit certain rights by swearing to adhere to the UCMJ. 
2.  He did knowingly and intentionally commit treasonous acts.
3.  He cannot be placed in the general population barracks (yes the general pop lives in barracks).
4.  He cannot be allow to commit suicide.
5.  He cannot be set free.

So it's about time you got off of your stump and let us know what you propose be done with him.

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#59 2011-03-17 01:44:22

Sorry Em, can you back up #2? With something besides a chat room post to a convicted hacker?

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#60 2011-03-17 13:01:02

Tall Paul wrote:

Sorry Em, can you back up #2? With something besides a chat room post to a convicted hacker?

OK - he is accused of treason

1, 3, 4 & 5 still apply.

Since they have hard evidence that he did download classified materials against orders and security policy the options of what to do with this guy are pretty limited.

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#61 2011-03-17 13:40:03

Dmtdust wrote:

choad wrote:

phreddy wrote:

I'm not sure what Wall Street, that liberal bastion, has to do with our treatment of traitors.  But there is one important universal rule of incarceration.  It is always open season on cop killers, pedophiles, and traitors.  It makes no difference what country you are in, the rule is pretty much universal.

Like speaking to a brick wall, isn't it Dusty?

And How.  Made me smile!

D

Hey, I'm not the one who brought Wall Street and politics into this discussion.  I am simply pointing out that there are at least as many liberals at the Wall Street trough as there are conservatives.  The only reason Wall Street has any sway over the governance of our populace is because the elected pols in power allow it.  Right now that's still Obama and company.

As for Manning, if his treatment in the stockade is unacceptable, then perhaps we should speed up his trial and get on with the firing squad.  Wouldn't want the little prick to suffer.

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

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#62 2011-03-17 13:57:21

phreddy wrote:

perhaps we should speed up his trial

No need to hurry, he's still drawing a paycheck.

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#63 2011-03-17 19:16:26

phreddy wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

And How.  Made me smile!

D

Hey, I'm not the one who brought Wall Street and politics into this discussion.  I am simply pointing out that there are at least as many liberals at the Wall Street trough as there are conservatives.  The only reason Wall Street has any sway over the governance of our populace is because the elected pols in power allow it.  Right now that's still Obama and company.

As for Manning, if his treatment in the stockade is unacceptable, then perhaps we should speed up his trial and get on with the firing squad.  Wouldn't want the little prick to suffer.

By that logic Obama is responsible for the Mafia, too.

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

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#64 2011-03-17 19:19:06

phreddy wrote:

Hey, I'm not the one who brought Wall Street and politics into this discussion.  I am simply pointing out that there are at least as many liberals at the Wall Street trough as there are conservatives.  The only reason Wall Street has any sway over the governance of our populace is because the elected pols in power allow it.  Right now that's still Obama and company.

Pay no attention to the decades of deregulation behind the curtain...

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#65 2011-03-17 19:24:33

Paul wrote:

By that logic Obama is responsible for the Mafia, too.

He took money from so many shady sources, it wouldn't surprise me.

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#66 2011-03-17 20:18:51

phreddy wrote:

Paul wrote:

By that logic Obama is responsible for the Mafia, too.

He took money from so many shady sources, it wouldn't surprise me.

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#67 2011-03-20 14:34:49

The most significant result of the leaks, Ellsberg insists, were diplomatic cables that spurred the uprisings in Tunisia, toppling a corrupt government and paving the way for a successful governmental overthrow in Egypt and protests to oust corrupt leaders in North Africa and the Middle East.
"Yet Bradley Manning should pay dearly," Ellsberg says. "He compromised national security. He's a traitor.

"What the hell?"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/19/wikile … l?hpt=Sbin

Last edited by George Orr (2011-03-20 14:40:59)

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#68 2011-03-20 15:12:18

Don't tell the Empire or its slaves that they are naked, or pay the price.  Manning will be eventually hailed as a hero in the service of humanity.  Great article.

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#69 2011-03-20 20:07:51

Dmtdust wrote:

Don't tell the Empire or its slaves that they are naked, or pay the price.  Manning will be eventually hailed as a hero in the service of humanity.  Great article.

No, he won't.

History will show that he did, in fact, violate his trust and national security.  It will also show that while some of what he did penetrated the overall ignorance of a population that largely chooses to ignore its government, the effects of the leak on the world were inconsequential and that any uprisings were largely coincidental.

The most profound effect of what he did was to expose that investigative journalists aren't worth a pinch of dog shit any more because they should have been reporting this stuff long ago and shouldn't have needed some asshole to breach security orders to do it.

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#70 2011-03-20 20:26:53

peco wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

Manning will be eventually hailed as a hero in the service of humanity.

No, he won't.

On occasion you still amuse me.
Fucking a, Dmtdust.

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#71 2011-03-20 20:38:33

peco wrote:

investigative journalists aren't worth a pinch of dog shit any more because they should have been reporting this stuff long ago and shouldn't have needed some asshole to breach security orders to do it.

Thank you.

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#72 2011-03-20 20:50:16

If the effects of the leak on the world were inconsequential and any uprisings were largely coincidental, why should investigative journalists have reported this stuff long ago?

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#73 2011-03-20 22:42:58

MSG Tripps wrote:

peco wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

Manning will be eventually hailed as a hero in the service of humanity.

No, he won't.

On occasion you still amuse me.
Fucking a, Dmtdust.

You are welcome. 

I have confidence that Manning will take his place next to Ellsberg.  His efforts have already helped change the world for the better.

Let Me Hold Up The Mirror, And I Quote: 

"That the mass bleeds, that it is being robbed and exploited, I know as well as our vote-baiters. But I insist that not the handful of parasites, but the mass itself is responsible for this horrible state of affairs. It clings to its masters, loves the whip, and is the first to cry Crucify! the moment a protesting voice is raised against the sacredness of capitalistic authority or any other decayed institution. Yet how long would authority and private property exist, if not for the willingness of the mass to become soldiers, policemen, jailers, and hangmen." - Emma Goldman

Thank You, Thank You, I will consistently side on the side of sanity.

D

Last edited by Dmtdust (2011-03-20 22:49:29)

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#74 2011-03-20 23:07:43

Dmtdust wrote:

His efforts have already helped change the world for the better.

For sure.
My world must be better for that because D says so.

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#75 2011-03-20 23:40:57

There ya go.  I am glad you are more receptive to the hive mind.

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#76 2011-04-05 11:40:32

Oh Thank God, Finally somebody understands the point of the whole wikileaks things and is bringing in accountability to the design.

Here he is to save the day.

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#77 2011-04-05 13:25:46

Would love to see a FOIA wiki that encompasses everything released under that umbrella, hopefully non-partisan.

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#78 2012-01-05 20:46:06

Truth:

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#79 2012-01-05 22:55:57

Dmtdust wrote:

Truth

Truth is telling your wife that you fucked her sister and her mother but that still doesn't make the action or the telling right.  Bush's bullshit does not expunge Manning's crimes.

Go ahead and cry him a river that won't make him any less of a traitor.

Last edited by Emmeran (2012-01-05 22:56:56)

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#80 2012-01-06 00:54:59

Emmeran wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

Truth

Truth is telling your wife that you fucked her sister and her mother but that still doesn't make the action or the telling right.  Bush's bullshit does not expunge Manning's crimes.

Go ahead and cry him a river that won't make him any less of a traitor.

Let's see, how does that saying go?

Edmund  Burke wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Yeah, that's it.

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#81 2012-01-06 01:33:46

What Sig said.

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#82 2012-01-06 01:38:09

Dmtdust wrote:

What Sig said.

I view him no more a traitor than Ellsberg.

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#83 2012-01-06 05:35:25

License my roving hands, and let them go
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man manned,
My mine of precious stones, my empery,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!

John Donne, 1669

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#84 2012-01-06 12:17:05

Without getting into the legalities, it seems to me that Ellsberg's action was very focused, with a fairly specific political and historical point.  the leaks actually revealed something important.  Manning, through Assange, on the other hand, simply did an unfocused data dump.  If I thought there was substantial value added in what they published, I might feel different about them.

Some people seem to believe that there is something inherently good about revealing things identified as national secrets.  That seems backwards to me.  Justifying the publication of national secrets should be subject to a high bar.

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#85 2012-01-06 13:42:51

Fled wrote:

Without getting into the legalities, it seems to me that Ellsberg's action was very focused, with a fairly specific political and historical point.  the leaks actually revealed something important.  Manning, through Assange, on the other hand, simply did an unfocused data dump.  If I thought there was substantial value added in what they published, I might feel different about them.

Some people seem to believe that there is something inherently good about revealing things identified as national secrets.  That seems backwards to me.  Justifying the publication of national secrets should be subject to a high bar.

Whilst I do respect your opinion Fled, and understand the nature of Emilie's distaste, I feel Manning did more than just "dump" data.  He did what was needed for the times as Ellsberg did in his.  Both were moved by conscience, and both followed through.

Of course, your speed may vary.

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#86 2012-01-06 15:02:24

sigmoid freud wrote:

Edmund  Burke wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Yeah, that's it.

Correct, which is why Manning will spend the rest of his days in jail, one good man stepped up and pointed out his evil crimes. 

At this point the we cannot yet determine if any good or bad came from this release of information, of course the claim that the DoD confirmed zero casulties is complete bullshit.

Last edited by Emmeran (2012-01-06 15:03:29)

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#87 2012-01-12 21:04:53

‎"Bradley Manning's leaks probably put fewer Americans in danger than the leaks by the 4 Marines in Afghanistan will." Greg Mitchell

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#88 2012-01-13 07:43:25

Dmtdust wrote:

‎"Bradley Manning's leaks probably put fewer Americans in danger than the leaks by the 4 Marines in Afghanistan will." Greg Mitchell

Good line. 

I assume 4 BCDs are due.

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#90 2012-02-07 23:54:57

Dmtdust wrote:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/07/1062609/-NLG-calls-for-dismissal-of-charges-against-Manning

Apples and Oranges my friend. 

The pentagon papers were a specific event regarding specific information which the individual attempted to redress via appropriate channels, when thwarted in that effort he was forced to pursue an alternative and unconventional route.  Ellsberg committed his crime for a reason, his actions had supporting evidence; Manning just dumped anything he could find purportedly because he suddenly came to believe that there should be no right to privacy for government officials.

Nothing in Ellsbergs story line has any relation to the actions of Pvt. Manning, the data Manning released has shed light on exactly nothing and was shockingly trivial. He didn't bother to find evidence of a crime, he simpley hoped and believed there would be one; yet there wasn't.  He lacked the overwhelming patriotic motivation Ellsberg had, his was only a desire to create havoc.  He is an unfortunate and misguided soul, however on a positive note he finally has gotten the eternal attention he craved; Bradley Manning will go down in history as the stupidest soul to break his oath of honor.  He will die a lonely man in prison for his crimes and will have acheived absolutely nothing.

I sincerely pity the man.

Apples and Oranges...

Last edited by Emmeran (2012-02-07 23:56:00)

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#91 2012-02-08 05:20:08

As much as it pains me to agree with Emmeran, I see far too much altruism applied to Manning after the fact.  I think he was treated in an abhorrently bad manner in custody, but I see no evidence that he leaked the information for any noble reason (or even any evidence that he knew what the information he was leaking meant).

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#92 2012-02-08 08:47:17

Boring assed mother fuckers.

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#94 2012-02-08 14:30:51

Yeah and Obama got one for getting elected, that award is particularly pointless and those recommending Manning for it are viewing him through rose colored glasses, just as you are.  Painting Bradley Manning as the "Freedom of Information Hero" and "Ultimate Friend to All Mankind" reflects more your anti-establishment frustration than the your actual opinion of the man himself.

I agree with you on Ellsberg yet remain extremely confused by your dogged determination to honestly evaluate the Manning and his actions.

Ellsberg = Hero
Manning = Schmuck

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#95 2012-02-08 18:25:26

Another reason to bomb Iceland into the sea.  But the women there good looking and they love to binge drink.

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#96 2012-03-12 20:48:37

I told you so, and you know I am right, regardless of your emotional reaction....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ma … eatment-un

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#97 2012-03-13 21:27:36

A Catch-22 by definition: leave him in general population and he gets destroyed, put him in solitary and someone complains.  The best they could do was to house him with the rest of the accused enlisted traitors, which they did.  ;-)

To understand the problem Dusty you have to think about the type of Marines that are in the brig...

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#98 2012-03-14 13:08:58

Emmeran wrote:

To understand the problem Dusty you have to think about the type of Marines that are in the brig...

There are also the soldiers there.

Last edited by MSG Tripps (2012-03-14 13:10:08)

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