#2 2012-03-23 06:37:56
A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.
Now that you know the suppressed facts of the case, you can for form a better more balanced opinion.
OOOOOO! Suspended from school for FIVE WHOLE DAYS! He must have done something REALLY BAD!! Maybe he ditched a pep rally to go smoke cigarettes in the boy's room?
Be that as it may, you can't make a constant litany of 911 calls about black teenagers, confront someone on the public streets (especially after being told not to approach by police officers) get punched and then shoot the person you originally stalked and they cry 'Self Defense'. It also helps if you can avoid saying "These coons always get away" on the 911 tape.
I'm looking forward to all the facts coming out. I think we can at least agree that there's a bad smell about the whole thing.
Offline
#3 2012-03-23 06:48:33
Yes, the whole thing does stink. The narrative of innocent black child killed by an evil White man is breaking down. The killer isn’t White; he’s a mestizo fuckup. The kneegrow isn’t an innocent child but rather a violent thug. Were it not for the false White on black hate crime angle, this would be just another killing between non-Whites in a crappy neighborhood, and outside of the local area nobody would have heard about it.
Offline
#4 2012-03-24 14:53:43
fnord wrote:
Yes, the whole thing does stink. The narrative of innocent black child killed by an evil White man is breaking down. The killer isn’t White; he’s a mestizo fuckup. The kneegrow isn’t an innocent child but rather a violent thug. Were it not for the false White on black hate crime angle, this would be just another killing between non-Whites in a crappy neighborhood, and outside of the local area nobody would have heard about it.
I'll ignore your usual racist rantings because it's just par for the course, but I think you're missing the point about why people are outraged. It isn't just the fact that this wannabe vigilante chased this kid down, then shot him when he felt like he was losing the fight. It's the fact that the police did absolutely nothing about a kid getting gunned down in the street for the crime of walking at night.
Oh, and by the way, he wasn't a violent thug. We know why he got suspended. It was for tardiness. And yes, I do believe that if it had been a white kid that got shot there would have been an instant murder investigation. At the very least they would have brought Zimmerman in for questioning.
Offline
#5 2012-03-24 15:09:20
You've also never had to give a son "the talk" about being a black man in society. I've heard it's wrenching--taking your kid from innocent childhood Elmo's world and pushing them into the real, hurtful world.
Offline
#6 2012-03-24 16:04:43
ah297900 wrote:
You've also never had to give a son "the talk" about being a black man in society. I've heard it's wrenching--taking your kid from innocent childhood Elmo's world and pushing them into the real, hurtful world.
Actually, as a large muscular white man, I have had "the talk" with my son. It's not so much about color but about threat level.
Let's be clear on the subject: anyone who classifies Barrack Obama as "black" is making a racist statement. He's more white than black and should not be deemed as anything other than true American.
Offline
#7 2012-03-24 16:21:28
Emmeran wrote:
Actually, as a large muscular white man, I have had "the talk" with my son. It's not so much about color but about threat level.
Let's be clear on the subject: anyone who classifies Barrack Obama as "black" is making a racist statement. He's more white than black and should not be deemed as anything other than true American.
If you don't understand this: Drop and give me twenty.
Offline
#8 2012-03-24 16:27:55
Emmeran wrote:
Actually, as a large muscular white man...
Expect a lot of personal messages from Taint and fnord.
I don't have a problem with just saying he's black, because he's experienced the world as a "completely" black person would. When we talk about black, we're talking about race and not ethnicity--two different things as evidenced by the fact that a discussion about being black is different from a discussion about being Danish.
The important thing isn't his genotype but that cops, loan officers, professors, neighbors, etc. saw him as black and responded accordingly. It's not like people could sense that his mom was white and give him half-off racism.
Cabbie: "Sure, pal, get in. I'll give you a ride halfway to the airport. Then your black half is going to have to walk the rest of the way."
Offline
#9 2012-03-24 16:57:08
ah297900 wrote:
It's not like people could sense that his mom was white and give him half-off racism.
Actually the vast majority of people react more to attitude and manner than color, Barry was raised by Midwest white folk - which has a lot to do with the fact that he now calls the white house home.
Offline
#10 2012-03-24 17:07:52
Yeah, reasonable people do, but they're not the ones that make racism a problem.
My only point was that, when he steps out into a racist society, he gets the same treatment as anybody who is "fully" black because there's no way to tell that he's not.
Offline
#11 2012-03-24 18:05:22
ah297900 wrote:
Yeah, reasonable people do, but they're not the ones that make racism a problem.
My only point was that, when he steps out into a racist society, he gets the same treatment as anybody who is "fully" black because there's no way to tell that he's not.
Point well taken, keep in mind the good ole USA is the least racist society in the entire world.
Offline
#12 2012-03-24 19:36:14
Emmeran wrote:
Actually the vast majority of people react more to attitude and manner than color, Barry was raised by Midwest white folk - which has a lot to do with the fact that he now calls the white house home.
I hate having to agree with this, but it is 100% spot on.
keep in mind the good ole USA is the least racist society in the entire world.
Another statement I really hate having to agree with. I haven't traveled the globe, but I have been about a bit, and I've talked to people from a lot of different places. When I was younger I thought the USA had to be nearly the most racist country in the whole world, and it hurt a lot to have to admit the opposite. It's a fact but it in no way means that the race situation in this country is good.
All This Has Happened Before and Will Happen Again
Offline
#13 2012-03-24 20:39:39
George Orr wrote:
A bit too much pandering in that article but I was happy to hear that Mr. Martin was in fact holding his own (or better) vs. Mr. Zimmerman before weapons were involved.
The Castle doctrine is sacrosanct almost worldwide, it's hard to find anyone outside of the ultra-liberals who disagree with it. This situation however is different and dangerously loaded with minute detail. On the surface racism doesn't play into this whatsoever, however (and I lack certified detail on this) the apparent failure to identify or attempt to notify the victims family smells a little bit like racism. Unfortunately it could also just have been an instance of gross incompetence.
The "Stand your ground" law? What's the fucking point, self-defense has always been self-defense and the "Castle Doctrine" has been successfully vetted by the Supreme Court to include automobiles.
The result in my opinion? The "Stand your Ground" laws were a political ploy perpetuated nation-wide by Phreddy and Fnord's fear doctrine which then backlashed into this extremely unfortunate event.
Offline
#14 2012-03-24 20:53:13
I ignored this at first, I mean really this sounds like the world was rotating correctly up until the pistol was pulled out.
Look - in modern suburban school districts 5 days is a bare minimum punishment for being in a fight, even if you did not instigate and were getting your ass kicked. I do not expect Fnord to know this as he as immured himself from these particular life lessons. The instance itself wherein a pudgy Cop wannabe got his ass handed to him by a 17 year old football player is just hilarious, a fucking gut buster up until the point where mister wannabe shoots the kid dead.
Of course the young athletic kid kicked fat-boy's ass; the kid's in shape and he's stronger, he's quicker and he's far faster - oh and he's in pumping the adrenaline that only the hunted know. He's in fear for his very life.
Unfortunately it appears he was right on that last bit...
Finally - pistols should be banned. If you can't get the job done with a rifle you suck anyway.
Offline
#15 2012-03-24 21:01:44
Emmeran wrote:
Finally - pistols should be banned. If you can't get the job done with a rifle you suck anyway.
Not necessarily correct. Different stuff calls for different weapons.
Offline
#16 2012-03-24 21:16:35
MSG Tripps wrote:
Emmeran wrote:
Finally - pistols should be banned. If you can't get the job done with a rifle you suck anyway.
Not necessarily correct. Different stuff calls for different weapons.
I vehemently disagree, pistols have lost their place in civilian society due to gross misuse. I'll take my rifle and bayonet each and every day of the week against any of these assholes and their fucking "god-maker" side arms.
There is a reason our troops only carry a rifle and bayonet and that reason is that if you are any good that's all you'll ever need. I wish someone would explain that to the LAPD.
(disclaimer #1: tunnel rats and spec ops are outliers and not part of this particular conversation)
(disclaimer #2: I personally own a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, a match grade AR-15, a mameluke sword and a tomahawk)
Last edited by Emmeran (2012-03-24 21:21:48)
Offline
#17 2012-03-24 21:23:58
Emmeran wrote:
There is a reason our troops only carry a rifle and bayonet and that reason is that if you are any good that's all you'll ever need.
I carried a side arm.
Offline
#18 2012-03-24 21:48:44
MSG Tripps wrote:
I carried a side arm.
As did I, but it should be noted these were for specific conditions or by personal endeavor.
Have you noticed the armament our traffic cops carry today?? Makes our kit look like paupers gear.
Last edited by Emmeran (2012-03-24 21:50:22)
Offline
#19 2012-03-24 22:13:24
I'm not all that experienced with firearms, but you bring your highly-polished chrome .44 magnum with the laser sight and custom leather holster and I'll bring, oh say a .270 with a scope and we'll see who's left standing at the end of the day. By all means bring your knife too.
A gun is just a tool, it has a function and an intended purpose. You don't have to follow that intended purpose, you can always open a paint can with a chisel or gouge wood with a screwdriver if you're dumb enough. The only rational use for a pistol is to make holes in humans, period, end of story. They are excellent tools but very bad fetishes indeed. Unfortunately it seems a majority of our most vocal fellow Americans use pistols to jerk off about how manly and downright powerful they are. Maybe in addition to a background check you should have to undergo a penile cuff test (Not you, George) before you get your handgun?
Offline
#20 2012-03-25 00:04:01
Tall Paul wrote:
A gun is just a tool ...
This is your weapon
This is your gun
One is for killing
One is for fun
Offline
#21 2012-03-25 00:19:51
MSG Tripps wrote:
Tall Paul wrote:
A gun is just a tool ...
This is your weapon
This is your gun
One is for killing
One is for fun
Stand by for short arm inspection.
Offline
#22 2012-03-25 00:23:29
Tall Paul wrote:
Stand by for short arm inspection.
Yeah, so what?
Offline
#23 2012-03-26 19:15:08
The latest word is that Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an (empty) pot baggie; but that could just be a spin. Apparently he was kicking Zimmerman's ass when he was shot, perhaps Zimmerman should have considered physical fitness before he appointed himself as a Watchman. Also, supposedly Zimmerman didn't actually belong to any Neighborhood Watch organization, he was just sort of acting that way.
It's pretty funny, even the conservative radio hosts here are bashing Zimmerman; he's quite probably the most hated person in America right now.
Offline
#24 2012-03-26 19:27:33
Em wrote:
I vehemently disagree, pistols have lost their place in civilian society due to gross misuse. I'll take my rifle and bayonet each and every day of the week against any of these assholes and their fucking "god-maker" side arms.
Bring your rifle and bayonet to California, and most other states, stroll around town for a while and see how long you last before you're either gunned down or handcuffed. It's now against the law to carry a pistol on your hip in California, loaded or not. Therefore, a concealed pistol is the only protection upon which you can rely.
Not to mention the slippery slope to denying protection under the 2nd amendment. Read this list of California's gun law prohibitions and try to square it with "..the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged".
Offline
#25 2012-03-26 19:51:36
phreddy wrote:
Read this list of California's gun law prohibitions and try to square it with "..the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged".
Phreddy, isn't there something about a well regulated militia that's supposed to be in that quote?
Show me a man older than six who likes to play soldier and I'll show you someone who shouldn't have access to firearms.
Offline
#26 2012-03-26 22:20:12
phreddy wrote:
Em wrote:
I vehemently disagree, pistols have lost their place in civilian society due to gross misuse. I'll take my rifle and bayonet each and every day of the week against any of these assholes and their fucking "god-maker" side arms.
Bring your rifle and bayonet to California, and most other states, stroll around town for a while and see how long you last before you're either gunned down or handcuffed. It's now against the law to carry a pistol on your hip in California, loaded or not. Therefore, a concealed pistol is the only protection upon which you can rely.
Not to mention the slippery slope to denying protection under the 2nd amendment. Read this list of California's gun law prohibitions and try to square it with "..the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged".
I hope you realize that your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is way far to the right of Anton Scalia.
Offline
#27 2012-03-26 22:24:13
I'm in favor of arming bears so they can shoot homophobes!
Offline
#28 2012-03-27 00:19:36
phreddy wrote:
a concealed pistol is the only protection upon which you can rely.
Do you understand that this very statement condemns yourself?
Or look at it this way, I've never felt protected because I carried a firearm and particularly when carrying a sidearm. My protection arises from my own competence and confidence.
Besides, I have other weapons... far scarier weapons if it comes to that.
Offline
#30 2012-03-27 05:06:21
Hey fnord, tell us all about the NEW truth that's been coming out!
Offline
#31 2012-03-27 05:40:08
Tall Paul wrote:
Hey fnord, tell us all about the NEW truth that's been coming out!
Which new truth would that be? That Trayvon (what a fucked up trashy nigger name!) was a drug dealer, and had attacked a school bus driver? That stolen women's jewelry and a screwdriver were found in his school locker, indicating involvement in burglary? That his mother has filed trademark applications in order to make money from her nigglet's death?
This was just a fucked up interaction between mestizo and nigger trash. The press has made it into a White killing of a nigger thing, in order to make money. Al and Jesse are using the episode to make money. Various nigger preachers and professional agitators are hoping this will be their ticket into the big leagues of nigger racial agitation for fun and profit. The dirty mestizo's family are trying very hard to get the word out that he isn't White, because hate crime enhancements are only applied to Whites! The only problem with this is that it interferes with everybody else’s scams if it's admitted the killer isn't White!
Offline
#32 2012-03-27 06:16:44
fnord wrote:
Tall Paul wrote:
Hey fnord, tell us all about the NEW truth that's been coming out!
Which new truth would that be? That Trayvon (what a fucked up trashy nigger name!) was a drug dealer, and had attacked a school bus driver? That stolen women's jewelry and a screwdriver were found in his school locker, indicating involvement in burglary? That his mother has filed trademark applications in order to make money from her nigglet's death?
This was just a fucked up interaction between mestizo and nigger trash. The press has made it into a White killing of a nigger thing, in order to make money. Al and Jesse are using the episode to make money. Various nigger preachers and professional agitators are hoping this will be their ticket into the big leagues of nigger racial agitation for fun and profit. The dirty mestizo's family are trying very hard to get the word out that he isn't White, because hate crime enhancements are only applied to Whites! The only problem with this is that it interferes with everybody else’s scams if it's admitted the killer isn't White!
You never disappoint!
Offline
#33 2012-03-27 06:41:32
Tall Paul wrote:
fnord wrote:
Tall Paul wrote:
Hey fnord, tell us all about the NEW truth that's been coming out!
Which new truth would that be? That Trayvon (what a fucked up trashy nigger name!) was a drug dealer, and had attacked a school bus driver? That stolen women's jewelry and a screwdriver were found in his school locker, indicating involvement in burglary? That his mother has filed trademark applications in order to make money from her nigglet's death?
This was just a fucked up interaction between mestizo and nigger trash. The press has made it into a White killing of a nigger thing, in order to make money. Al and Jesse are using the episode to make money. Various nigger preachers and professional agitators are hoping this will be their ticket into the big leagues of nigger racial agitation for fun and profit. The dirty mestizo's family are trying very hard to get the word out that he isn't White, because hate crime enhancements are only applied to Whites! The only problem with this is that it interferes with everybody else’s scams if it's admitted the killer isn't White!You never disappoint!
I try not to. PC sucks ass, and race and racial differences are very real.
Offline
#34 2012-03-27 11:52:36
Tall Paul wrote:
phreddy wrote:
Read this list of California's gun law prohibitions and try to square it with "..the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged".
Phreddy, isn't there something about a well regulated militia that's supposed to be in that quote?
I have posted this before, but let me respond with a quote from one of the men who wrote the amendment.
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson
Just remember, "one man one vote" means nothing if you cannot join with others to protect this right. To cede this right and believe that a law written on a piece of paper will protect you from tyranny is pitifully Polyanna.
Offline
#35 2012-03-27 11:59:28
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson
Yes, because it's inconceivable that he thought that local militias (and the absence of a standing army) were a check against an overreaching tyrannical government.
phreddy wrote:
Just remember, "one man one vote" means nothing if you cannot join with others to protect this right. To cede this right and believe that a law written on a piece of paper will protect you from tyranny is pitifully Polyanna.
To entertain fantasies of defending yourself from or overthrowing the government with your home firearms is just plain pitiful.
Offline
#36 2012-03-27 12:21:40
I'm sure Phreddy has a point, if only he would make it.
Is this second amendment/protection argument related to the Florida shooting somehow, or is it just a highjacking?
Offline
#37 2012-03-27 12:44:47
Fled wrote:
I'm sure Phreddy has a point, if only he would make it.
Is this second amendment/protection argument related to the Florida shooting somehow, or is it just a highjacking?
Marginally related. Some people are pointing out that with Florida's rather extreme Stand Your Ground law which basically says if you feel threatened you can shoot first and ask questions later no matter where you are, the police may have had their hands tied. This led some people to say that maybe the law should be re-visited. This of course got the people who see any regulation of firearms as an assault on the 2nd Amendment up in arms (no pun intended).
Unintended side-effect: we have Fnord repeating a bunch of lies some right-wing Republican commenter pulled out of his ass about Treyvon being a drug dealer and a violent thug and attacking a bus driver (he did have an incident that someone in the police department leaked where he was caught with an empty marijuana baggie, but that hardly seems like an excuse to shoot somebody).
Last edited by tojo2000 (2012-03-27 12:45:18)
Offline
#38 2012-03-27 13:18:03
Hmm, Phreddy, doesn't the "Stand Your Ground" law apply to Martin and not Zimmerman. Heck, hoodie pot smoking gangbanger or no, when some dude stalks you down the street and then chases you after a confrontation isn't that a case of "stand your ground". Wasn't Martin well within his rights to expect grievous bodily harm? Using what weapons or fists he could get his hands on to defend himself. Including grabbing for a gun that appears in the locked together scuffle and aerating his stalker?
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
Offline
#39 2012-03-27 13:20:20
tojo2000 wrote:
we have Fnord repeating a bunch of lies some right-wing Republican commenter pulled out of his ass about Treyvon being a drug dealer and a violent thug and attacking a bus driver
His previous teenaged transgressions have absolutely nothing to do with the events of that night, Zimmerman stalked Martin and initiated a confrontation. During that confrontation he shot and killed Martin.
This are the facts, everything else is a distraction.
Offline
#40 2012-03-27 13:23:45
Johnny_Rotten wrote:
https://cruelery.com/uploads/359_1332569412.jpg
https://cruelery.com/uploads/359_zimmer … martin.jpg
Hmm, Phreddy, doesn't the "Stand Your Ground" law apply to Martin and not Zimmerman. Heck, hoodie pot smoking gangbanger or no, when some dude stalks you down the street and then chases you after a confrontation isn't that a case of "stand your ground". Wasn't Martin well within his rights to expect grievous bodily harm? Using what weapons or fists he could get his hands on to defend himself. Including grabbing for a gun that appears in the locked together scuffle and aerating his stalker?
BTW, in case you didn't already know, those supposed pictures of Treyvon have already been debunked.
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
Offline
#41 2012-03-27 13:57:23
Here's another troublesome bit:
Wikipedia wrote:
"The morning after the incident, Tracy Martin called missing persons and the police to report his son as missing. Officers were dispatched to the home, where they showed the father a crime scene photograph of Martin for identification purposes. Martin's body had been taken to the medical examiner's office as a John Doe and unidentified for 24 hours"
They didn't try very hard to identify the kid so it appears they assumed he was a criminal. The kid had a phone on him that would surely make identification fairly easy.
Offline
#42 2012-03-27 14:02:15
Emmeran wrote:
Here's another troublesome bit:
Wikipedia wrote:
"The morning after the incident, Tracy Martin called missing persons and the police to report his son as missing. Officers were dispatched to the home, where they showed the father a crime scene photograph of Martin for identification purposes. Martin's body had been taken to the medical examiner's office as a John Doe and unidentified for 24 hours"
They didn't try very hard to identify the kid so it appears they assumed he was a criminal. The kid had a phone on him that would surely make identification fairly easy.
This makes no sense at all.
There have been several stories since this happened that the kid was actually on the phone when this all went down. On top of that, the kid was supposedly in the neighborhood visiting friends. Surely someone at the scene would have known, or the parents would have suspected something when the news came out that there was a shooting in the neighborhood their kid was visiting?
Offline
#43 2012-03-27 14:13:42
XregnaR wrote:
This makes no sense at all.
There have been several stories since this happened that the kid was actually on the phone when this all went down. On top of that, the kid was supposedly in the neighborhood visiting friends. Surely someone at the scene would have known, or the parents would have suspected something when the news came out that there was a shooting in the neighborhood their kid was visiting?
Actually, he was walking back to his dad's fiancee's house. It's possible that his dad's fiancee's gated community is one of those where neighbors don't talk to each other much. If there was a shooting in my apartment complex I don't know anyone who would tell me about it, even though we're friendly to each other.
Offline
#44 2012-03-27 16:18:20
We can expect nigger riots this summer, with the justification being that Trayvon was "killed by a racist cracker." Stop shaking your head! You know it's true.
Last edited by fnord (2012-03-27 16:19:34)
Offline
#45 2012-03-27 17:25:34
tojo2000 wrote:
At the very least they would have brought Zimmerman in for questioning.
I agree. "Lay Lady Lay" is unpardonable. The Geneva Convention already considers his castrato caterwauling a war crime.
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
Offline
#46 2012-03-27 17:52:42
Choad wrote:
I agree. "Lay Lady Lay" is unpardonable. The Geneva Convention already considers his castrato caterwauling a war crime.
But you must admit he wrote a hell of a lot of great songs. Many of which are attributed to others through ignorance.
Last edited by phreddy (2012-03-27 17:53:39)
Offline
#47 2012-03-27 18:18:30
phreddy wrote:
Choad wrote:
I agree. "Lay Lady Lay" is unpardonable. The Geneva Convention already considers his castrato caterwauling a war crime.
But you must admit he wrote a hell of a lot of great songs. Many of which are attributed to others through ignorance.
I don't know how you can resist the harmony with Johnny Cash. I crack up every time I listen to it. The exciting wrap-up to the song brings tears to my eyes (and sometimes my ears).
Offline
#48 2012-03-27 18:28:12
If this don't beat all. Give your multiple personalities names? I admit nothing! Those are howls from the bowels of hell. Almost rivals Clapton.
Offline
#49 2012-03-27 18:37:19
tojo2000 "To entertain fantasies of defending yourself from or overthrowing the government with your home firearms is just plain pitiful."
It's not a fantasy, it has happened. Just after WWII a corrupt county government in, I think Tennessee, was overthrown by force of arms by veterans.
While it may be inconceivable that our government would get so bad that a revolution would be necessary anytime in the near future, Nobody knows what may happen 20 or 30 years down the line. Once the rights are gone, there is no getting them back.
In addition defense against tyranny, I can think of several nightmare scenarios that are well within the realm of reality in which general law and order would break down, leaving people to fend for themselves. In a society without legal consequences, the weak would quickly fall prey to the strong.
For example, if a virulent airborne virus with a long gestation (meaning millions would become infected before developing any symptoms) were to take hold, our public infrastructure would be completely overwhelmed. Emergency personnel would be just as sick as everyone else or tied up taking care of their family. What cop or soldier or ambulance driver is going to leave his sick kid behind and go take care of strangers?
Offline
#50 2012-03-27 19:34:21
Oh jeebus,
In that case you might just as well stock up on shopping carts as firearms. For when the zombie apocalypse comes to smite Silver Smythe yopu could pack your second floor stairwell with them. Everybody knows zombies cannot climb over a jumble of shopping carts. Eventually the herd will move on for fresh meat.
Offline
