#1 2013-04-09 16:56:44
A typical Exacto knife has a 1" blade. For the sake of humanity (and the children), we must limit these killing machines to 1/2" blades and ban all the black ones completely.
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#2 2013-04-09 17:26:47
Gotta love Houston.
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#3 2013-04-09 17:37:23
phreddy wrote:
A typical Exacto knife has a 1" blade. For the sake of humanity (and the children), we must limit these killing machines to 1/2" blades and ban all the black ones completely.
How many dead?
Phreddy you miss the point, if gun owners like you and I don't come up with a solution then the anti-gun folks will. This is about responsibility and also about 146 rounds fired in four minutes killing 20 babies. Go ahead and choose not to step up and make a mature decision; pound the table and scream about the 2nd Amendment but things are going to change and either the gun owners will change them or the anti-gun crowd will. You are helping to make that decision right now either way it ends up going.
Things are changing regardless...
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#4 2013-04-09 19:30:41
Emmeran wrote:
How many dead?
At least two are in critical condition. Here's a look at the bigger picture.
In 2011, almost 13,000 people were murdered with a weapon. Of those, 1,700 people were killed with knives; almost 500 were killed with hammers, bats, and clubs; and 728 were killed by another's bare hands. Statistics show only 323 people were killed with rifles. That's just 2.5 percent of all weapon-related murders.
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#5 2013-04-09 20:26:12
"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues.
"The Court's opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. [United States v.] Miller's holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those 'in common use at the time' finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."
Antonin Scalia
Phreddy, your argument holds no water unless you think Scalia is a RINO. And even then, your argument fails on several levels
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#6 2013-04-09 20:55:12
phreddy wrote:
Emmeran wrote:
How many dead?
At least two are in critical condition. Here's a look at the bigger picture.
In 2011, almost 13,000 people were murdered with a weapon. Of those, 1,700 people were killed with knives; almost 500 were killed with hammers, bats, and clubs; and 728 were killed by another's bare hands. Statistics show only 323 people were killed with rifles. That's just 2.5 percent of all weapon-related murders.
146 Rounds
4 Minutes
End of discussion
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#7 2013-04-10 14:11:25
I shoot matches all the time where I can run through more rounds with a faster aggregate time than that, shooting a 1911 with 8 round magazines.....
Em, have you read the reports that Lanza change magazine many times, leaving 30 magazines with 10 - 20 rounds still in them. The FBI profiler believes this is due to his obsession with FPS video games....
10 round magazines would still have resulted in the same casualty count.
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#8 2013-04-10 15:47:54
XregnaR wrote:
I shoot matches all the time where I can run through more rounds with a faster aggregate time than that, shooting a 1911 with 8 round magazines.....
Em, have you read the reports that Lanza change magazine many times, leaving 30 magazines with 10 - 20 rounds still in them. The FBI profiler believes this is due to his obsession with FPS video games....
10 round magazines would still have resulted in the same casualty count.
I hadn't heard about how many mag swaps he did, the dude was definitely a whack job; I did read that during one bungled mag change 11 children and a teacher escaped - I think that is worth consideration. Under current CA law (which has stood up under 2nd amendment scrutiny), magazine release buttons are forbidden - it requires a tool. I'm not sure that this is the answer but the important thing is open and honest discussion. As I have said, we are drawing limit lines already; now it's just a question of who draws them, where we draw those lines and why. I don't see this as a rights argument but more of what really makes sense discussion; for example in my mind, teachers armed to the teeth in middle schools with all those little assholes, just doesn't make a lot of sense.
As you are probably aware I hate the idea of a militarized local police force so it sensibly follows that I'm not really cool with a militarized hobbyist either. As you know I'm a hobbyist also, my professional career as a shooter is now long behind me.
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#9 2013-04-10 21:53:22
XregnaR wrote:
I shoot matches all the time where I can run through more rounds with a faster aggregate time than that, shooting a 1911 with 8 round magazines.....
Em, have you read the reports that Lanza change magazine many times, leaving 30 magazines with 10 - 20 rounds still in them. The FBI profiler believes this is due to his obsession with FPS video games....
10 round magazines would still have resulted in the same casualty count.
I seriously doubt he could have carried and managed that many 10 round clips, especially if he was not draining them. In any event, it is pure speculation to say that he would have caused the same level of carnage with less capable equipment.
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#10 2013-04-11 00:20:42
Fled wrote:
XregnaR wrote:
I shoot matches all the time where I can run through more rounds with a faster aggregate time than that, shooting a 1911 with 8 round magazines.....
Em, have you read the reports that Lanza change magazine many times, leaving 30 magazines with 10 - 20 rounds still in them. The FBI profiler believes this is due to his obsession with FPS video games....
10 round magazines would still have resulted in the same casualty count.I seriously doubt he could have carried and managed that many 10 round clips, especially if he was not draining them. In any event, it is pure speculation to say that he would have caused the same level of carnage with less capable equipment.
** Wait, I read that wrong - yes 15 magazines would have been extremely unwieldy even with a bandoleer. **
Sorry: just woke from an after dinner nap
Last edited by Emmeran (2013-04-11 00:23:27)
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#11 2013-04-11 05:17:01
And how many dead if those maniacs (Charles Whitman aside) were limited to a bolt action?
Face it. Years ago, the NRA and many firearms manufacturers figured out that their traditional constituency of hunters and competition shooters was dwindling. So they decided to change the paradigm, and now we have all these "tactical" firearms. Semi-auto, large capacity magazines, rifle or pistol, designed to appeal not to old school shootists but to the yahoos. For shit sake, there's even "zombie shooting" ammo. And do any of you even know anyone who reloads?
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#13 2013-04-11 11:33:31
Emmeran wrote:
The market speaks: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 … -from-guns
Dick’s Sporting Goods (DKS), one of the largest retailers in its industry, said Tuesday it is suspending the sale of certain military-style semiautomatic rifles similar to the one used by the Newtown killer.
Could it be because they can't find any weapons to sell?
Assault rifles are sold out across the country. Rounds of .223 bullets, like those used in the AR-15 type Bushmaster rifle used in Newtown, are scarce. Stores are struggling to restock their shelves. Gun and ammunition makers are telling retailers they will have to wait months to get more.
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#14 2013-04-11 12:19:46
Paranoia and Mob rule - just wonderful stuff
Last edited by Emmeran (2013-04-11 12:23:46)
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#15 2013-04-11 14:05:14
sigmoid freud wrote:
And how many dead if those maniacs (Charles Whitman aside) were limited to a bolt action?
Didn't the last assault weapon's bill show that you can't pick and choose from the incendental attributes of a firearm and expect to affect crime? Bolt action, bayonet lug, pistol grip, plastic furniture, magazine size, etc. They all mean nothing. The only important part is the finger on the trigger.
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#16 2013-04-11 14:59:13
Breech loading does seem to have a positive affect in slowing down the rapidity of the destruction and what the hell - having a SAW type ammo drum isn't going to help you against the "government" when the main battle tanks and gunships show up and start hitting you from miles away. Have you seen what the A-10s and Drones can do? You are dead before you even realize the threat exists.
So why again do these things need to be available to the general public? It seems to me that the "Right to bear arms" has turned into the "Right to have toys". Can silly season be over and all of us start acting like adults again?
Limited capacity magazines, removal of quick reload capability on privately owned weapons, along with mandatory registration, annual licensing and testing. Seriously folks, this isn't a rights issue; this is about public safety. Just how many caskets is your desire to have access to a military grade weapon to play with worth? The proof is in the pudding and the number of lives saved in America by privately owned high-grade military weapons in the last half century isn't even in the same ball park the number of innocent lives lost to those same type of weapons.
I'm getting sick of this selfish desire to have toys, this is just fucking Idiocracy in motion.
Once again real life imitates art.
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#17 2013-04-11 18:36:14
GooberMcNutly wrote:
sigmoid freud wrote:
And how many dead if those maniacs (Charles Whitman aside) were limited to a bolt action?
Didn't the last assault weapon's bill show that you can't pick and choose from the incendental attributes of a firearm and expect to affect crime? Bolt action, bayonet lug, pistol grip, plastic furniture, magazine size, etc. They all mean nothing. The only important part is the finger on the trigger.
There is some evidence on both sides of the question of the effectiveness of the ban on assault weapons. In Virginia, over the 10 or so years the ban was in place, the number of such weapons (poorly defined as they may have been) confiscated when people were arrested dropped steadily until the ban was lifted by congressional inaction about 6 years ago. I think overall the ban would have to have been in place much longer to measure the real impact. Guns, including assault weapons, tend to last a long time. Getting them off the street in sufficient numbers to make an easily discernible impact on violent crime would take many years.
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#18 2013-04-11 22:38:26
We have apparently gone crazy:
http://www.omaha.com/article/20130411/N … rms-dealer
http://www.omaha.com/article/20130411/M … ow-weapons
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#19 2013-04-12 09:02:03
Fled wrote:
GooberMcNutly wrote:
sigmoid freud wrote:
And how many dead if those maniacs (Charles Whitman aside) were limited to a bolt action?
Didn't the last assault weapon's bill show that you can't pick and choose from the incendental attributes of a firearm and expect to affect crime? Bolt action, bayonet lug, pistol grip, plastic furniture, magazine size, etc. They all mean nothing. The only important part is the finger on the trigger.
There is some evidence on both sides of the question of the effectiveness of the ban on assault weapons. In Virginia, over the 10 or so years the ban was in place, the number of such weapons (poorly defined as they may have been) confiscated when people were arrested dropped steadily until the ban was lifted by congressional inaction about 6 years ago.
Total gun seizures were down over that period and violent crime with it. But not because of any restriction on the visual characteristics of the guns, but because of that very effective but not very popular (at least among the 47%) Project Exile.
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#20 2013-04-12 11:07:29
GooberMcNutly wrote:
Fled wrote:
GooberMcNutly wrote:
Didn't the last assault weapon's bill show that you can't pick and choose from the incendental attributes of a firearm and expect to affect crime? Bolt action, bayonet lug, pistol grip, plastic furniture, magazine size, etc. They all mean nothing. The only important part is the finger on the trigger.
There is some evidence on both sides of the question of the effectiveness of the ban on assault weapons. In Virginia, over the 10 or so years the ban was in place, the number of such weapons (poorly defined as they may have been) confiscated when people were arrested dropped steadily until the ban was lifted by congressional inaction about 6 years ago.
Total gun seizures were down over that period and violent crime with it. But not because of any restriction on the visual characteristics of the guns, but because of that very effective but not very popular (at least among the 47%) Project Exile.
Project Exile may well explain part of the decline in violent crime, or perhaps even in the decline in the number of seizures of assault weapons. The law enforcement community, however, is fairly unanimous in believing that the ban on new sales of assault weapons bore a direct relationship to the decline in seizures of those weapons on arrest. In the absence of any proof, the most reasonable hypothesis would be that the ban on new sales and Project Exile worked in tandem.
Take a look at this graphic.
The ban on new sales coincided with the duration of the decline in sezures. Project Exile and Virginia Exile, on the other hand, continued long after the gun ban lapsed in 2004, when seizures began increasing sharply. This suggests that Project Exile and Virginia Exile may not have had much of an effect.
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