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#2 2021-05-24 11:29:21

In Response to the lack of attention to what has become an epidemic this year:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/us/us-ma … index.html

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#3 2021-05-24 12:02:48

Ammunition does have a shelf life, do you expect them to just throw it out?

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#4 2021-05-24 14:22:23

Baywolfe wrote:

In Response to the lack of attention to what has become an epidemic this year:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/us/us-ma … index.html

Portland has had a heck of a year with this stuff.

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#5 2021-05-27 16:11:59

Baywolfe wrote:

In Response to the lack of attention to what has become an epidemic this year:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/us/us-ma … index.html

Locations:
Stoop, Bar
Club @ 1am,
unknown @ "early Sunday",
"large gathering" @ "early Saturday",
in the park @ "late Saturday",
house party @ midnight,
"unauthorized bar" @ "late Saturday",
child hurt during stampede,
in the street after the bars closed.

Is it only me that sees a bit of a pattern here?

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#6 2021-05-27 17:39:45

GooberMcNutly wrote:

Baywolfe wrote:

In Response to the lack of attention to what has become an epidemic this year:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/us/us-ma … index.html

Is it only me that sees a bit of a pattern here?

In a word?  Yes.  We've moved on from that one.  Now it's the jilted boyfriend who worked at the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority (VTA) who SPECIFICALLY TARGETED PEOPLE before turning the gun on himself.

Cassidy was detained by US Customs and Border Protection officers in 2016 and was found with "books about terrorism and fear and manifestos... as well as a black memo book filled with lots of notes about how he hates the VTA," according to The Wall Street Journal, which cited a Department of Homeland Security memo.

The real pattern is crazy.  And until we solve that issue we don't need everfucking body in America with a gun strapped to their hip.  Figure out how to help/keep the crazies from gunning people down and we'll talk about gun freedom.

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#7 2021-05-27 18:13:02

Underlying Social Issues fuel this.  Idiots like Chipman will only make it worse.  Notice how well the WOD kept drugs off the streets of America. Huge success!  Prepare to see it magnified 10 fold with the WOG's.  Attack the symptoms, not the cause as fucking usual.  128 million people own guns, and if they were the problem, we'd know it.

Oh, and the AR.  More people are kicked and punched to death than killed by rifles of any kind, but the AR is the problem, right?  The AR has been available to civilians in the semi automatic version since 1959.  If they were so terrible, why didn't they appear so earlier? Semi Automatic rifles have been available since around 1907, but boy, are they the big threat.

Down to Manufacturing Consent, and shriveling what little rights people have left.

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#8 2021-05-28 07:17:06

While the social issues need to be address, access to guns needs to be addressed, as well. Especially access by crazies. And just because someone who is dedicated to murder can find other ways to kill, doesn't mean we need to keep making it easy for someone to mow down several people in a short span. "Do nothing" is NOT an acceptable answer.

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#9 2021-05-28 14:15:41

So, what is your plan for that?

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#10 2021-05-28 22:30:34

SpacePuppy wrote:

So, what is your plan for that?

I think some of us have been pretty clear on that.  But, since you've shit all over those ideas, what's your plan?

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#11 2021-05-28 22:44:20

I asked the question, don't deflect.

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#12 2021-05-29 06:13:01

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I am very glad to hear it."

... I help to support the establishments I have mentioned--they cost enough; and those who are
badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. "...

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#13 2021-05-29 07:25:19

SpacePuppy wrote:

So, what is your plan for that?

A good start would be universal background checks and closing the gun show loophole. "Red flag" laws. Actual bans on automatic weapons. Redirect a portion of the absurd amount of money police departments get to actually HELP the communities.

You bitch and bitch about the problem, but never offer any ideas. Your turn.

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#14 2021-05-29 07:48:01

BorderCount wrote:

You bitch and bitch about the problem, but never offer any ideas. Your turn.

I would ban the manufacture or sale of any "New" self-repeating(semi-auto) weapons.  Thus increasing the value of those in existence and pushing back to bolt/pump/single action weapons.  Including a ban on weapons designed to be easily modified to semi-auto.

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#15 2021-05-29 08:58:09

I think the biggest impediment to dealing with the problem is pretending that there is one solution. It's not all crazies, it's not all gangbangers, it's not all suicides. The debate rapidly dissolves into whattaboutism.

We all know the sources, but they are complex and deeply rooted. Guns, like the "overly" liberal arts, are only the visibly ugly artifact of an unhappy people. The real pain lies beneath the surface.

Remove the need for gangbanging by legalizing (though giving the work to the lawyers seems just as painful and more protracted...)
Remove the need for crazies by providing mental health (literally the cheapest form of healthcare)
Remove the need for suicides by keeping medical debt minimal, teach cops not to use guns as a form of negotiation and allow honorable and legal self-euthanasia.

Gun deaths are the symptom. But I guess people these days have been taught by Madison Ave to treat the symptom, not the cause, because the revenue is never ending and it's no different in Washington.

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#16 2021-05-29 14:55:31

Em, Semi automatics have been available since 1907 in the US.  Why are they a problem now? Does your ban include pistols as that is the tool of choice for most murders?  If you look at the CDC/FBI stats, more people are killed by fist and feet than rifles.  You stand a better chance of being struck by lightening than being shot by a semi-automatic. I have to say, banning anything doesn't work.  You have to address cause. Of course, that would be a national reckoning, wouldn't it?

Let's approach this without the emotional baggage foisted on us to manufacture consent by the media.  Look at the numbers. Murder/Gun Crime has been going down on the main since the early 90's.  2020-1 is an anomaly, I think due to the pressure cooker of the current situation.

2/3's or more of deaths by guns are suicide.  Check the stats. I can pretty much state that was by pistol in the majority.

If you all want links for stats, etc, I will provide them.

Cheers,
Dusty

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#17 2021-05-30 07:49:08

SpacePuppy wrote:

Em, Semi automatics have been available since 1907 in the US.  Why are they a problem now? Does your ban include pistols as that is the tool of choice for most murders?  If you look at the CDC/FBI stats, more people are killed by fist and feet than rifles.  You stand a better chance of being struck by lightening than being shot by a semi-automatic. I have to say, banning anything doesn't work.  You have to address cause. Of course, that would be a national reckoning, wouldn't it?

Let's approach this without the emotional baggage foisted on us to manufacture consent by the media.  Look at the numbers. Murder/Gun Crime has been going down on the main since the early 90's.  2020-1 is an anomaly, I think due to the pressure cooker of the current situation.

2/3's or more of deaths by guns are suicide.  Check the stats. I can pretty much state that was by pistol in the majority.

If you all want links for stats, etc, I will provide them.

Cheers,
Dusty

I see a lot of words, but none of them appear to offer solutions.

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#18 2021-05-30 14:32:49

"I see a lot of words, but none of them appear to offer solutions."

Enforce the laws on the books, if you feel the need to do so. Dylan Roof would not of been sold weapons if the FBI had done its job properly (look it up.)

Stop hyper inflating every instance of gun death, as it leads to more copy cat action. The media is deeply complicit and has a vested interest in keeping this ball rolling.  Its the clicks and advertisers baby. Those companies care not about the fall out on the street.

Believe it or not, the lack of decent jobs for the working class, the piss poor education system, the lack of decent health care and mental health care are huge contributors to what appears to be a crisis, and believe me, as the social pressures ratchet up (use the pandemic/demos etc as a closed system demo of said social pressures). Both political parties love the scenario, generating income from their base much like the "war on abortion". It is all designed to keep people distracted from the Oligarch's hands in everyone's pockets.

Make Civics a mandatory course for every semester in HS & the first 2 years of College. And along those lines, guarantee free college or trade school for some form of national service, not just military, but in serving the country. Teaching social responsibility, what a concept. 

I have a bunch more, but I am sure you'll ignore them and go to your default mode, nicely engineered for you by your media drip of choice.

Fun Fact. Early gun laws were organized to suppress freed slaves, in other words racist Jim Crow laws.  Consider that.

Last edited by SpacePuppy (2021-05-30 14:35:44)

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#19 2021-05-31 17:59:25

SpacePuppy wrote:

Fun Fact. Early gun laws were organized to suppress freed slaves, in other words racist Jim Crow laws.  Consider that.

The Second Amendment was written by the Virginians because they wanted their own standing army to support and protect their slave industry.  Massachusetts was sympathetic to that as well.

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#20 2021-06-01 01:13:07

Baywolfe wrote:

SpacePuppy wrote:

Fun Fact. Early gun laws were organized to suppress freed slaves, in other words racist Jim Crow laws.  Consider that.

The Second Amendment was written by the Virginians because they wanted their own standing army to support and protect their slave industry.  Massachusetts was sympathetic to that as well.

That is the current "woke idea". Concord and Lexington meant nothing, right?  You have to take the whole package of what went down with the Crown, going back a few years before the Revolution.

Last edited by SpacePuppy (2021-06-01 01:13:48)

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#21 2021-06-01 08:47:21

I'm writing a novel right now (It's on Patreon if your interested.) That deals with a lot of these topics.

But back to banning "New" rapid fire weapons, the point is we have enough and they don't simply go bad after a few months on the counter like eggs do.  Keep the mass killings down or at least make them more difficult.

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#22 2021-06-01 12:33:29

SpacePuppy wrote:

Baywolfe wrote:

SpacePuppy wrote:

Fun Fact. Early gun laws were organized to suppress freed slaves, in other words racist Jim Crow laws.  Consider that.

The Second Amendment was written by the Virginians because they wanted their own standing army to support and protect their slave industry.  Massachusetts was sympathetic to that as well.

That is the current "woke idea". Concord and Lexington meant nothing, right?  You have to take the whole package of what went down with the Crown, going back a few years before the Revolution.

Actual American History (as opposed to the fabricated bullshit students routinely consume) is not a "woke" idea, and Yorktown was the only battle that, ultimately, mattered.  Was Fort Sumter important about 80 years later?  Maybe, but Gettysburg and Vicksburg were more so.

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#23 2021-06-01 15:15:20

Baywolfe wrote:

SpacePuppy wrote:

Baywolfe wrote:

The Second Amendment was written by the Virginians because they wanted their own standing army to support and protect their slave industry.  Massachusetts was sympathetic to that as well.

That is the current "woke idea". Concord and Lexington meant nothing, right?  You have to take the whole package of what went down with the Crown, going back a few years before the Revolution.

Actual American History (as opposed to the fabricated bullshit students routinely consume) is not a "woke" idea, and Yorktown was the only battle that, ultimately, mattered.  Was Fort Sumter important about 80 years later?  Maybe, but Gettysburg and Vicksburg were more so.

It is cumulative, events and all. Regardless, it was written into the Bill of Rights.  Funny enough, you might actually need it for the events that might be coming up.  Colour me paranoid, but I would hope that people have the ability to defend themselves if need be. 

If legal gun owners were the problem, you would know it. Some 128 million... so, lets piss all over them for the actions of .0001 percent of those that possess guns and use them for nefarious ends... That seems fair.

Last edited by SpacePuppy (2021-06-01 16:51:13)

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#24 2021-06-01 17:47:25

SpacePuppy wrote:

Baywolfe wrote:

SpacePuppy wrote:


That is the current "woke idea". Concord and Lexington meant nothing, right?  You have to take the whole package of what went down with the Crown, going back a few years before the Revolution.

Actual American History (as opposed to the fabricated bullshit students routinely consume) is not a "woke" idea, and Yorktown was the only battle that, ultimately, mattered.  Was Fort Sumter important about 80 years later?  Maybe, but Gettysburg and Vicksburg were more so.

It is cumulative, events and all. Regardless, it was written into the Bill of Rights.  Funny enough, you might actually need it for the events that might be coming up.  Colour me paranoid, but I would hope that people have the ability to defend themselves if need be. 

If legal gun owners were the problem, you would know it. Some 128 million... so, lets piss all over them for the actions of .0001 percent of those that possess guns and use them for nefarious ends... That seems fair.

A rather distressing number of the weapons used in mass shootings (Sandy Hook, for example) were purchased legally. Let's stop making it easy for these fuckers to mow down kids.

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#25 2021-06-01 20:47:52

SpacePuppy wrote:

If legal gun owners were the problem, you would know it. Some 128 million... so, lets piss all over them for the actions of .0001 percent of those that possess guns and use them for nefarious ends... That seems fair.

Ironically, or not, the adults regarded as "gun nuts" are not currently the problem (but, as you implied, hold that thought).

As for the Bill of Rights, straight from the history books;

James Madison wrote the amendments, which list specific prohibitions on governmental power, in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties. ... Anti-Federalists held that a bill of rights was necessary to safeguard individual liberty.

So people bitched and our founding fathers, who were all elitists and knew where the power really lay, wrote some shit that would not affect them in the least.  At first, Madison thought they would be completely useless. 

Again, from history;

James Madison and other supporters of the Constitution argued that a bill of rights wasn't necessary because - “the government can only exert the powers specified by the Constitution.” But they agreed to consider adding amendments when ratification was in danger in the key state of Massachusetts.

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#26 2021-06-04 11:05:45

This country suffers from the delusion that the founding fathers were perfect and got everything right.  They almost certainly were just as f'ed up as the rest of us.

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#28 2021-06-12 11:41:47

Since these are now happening daily, I'm going to keep posting them as a counterpoint to "more guns make things better."  Enjoy!

At least 13 people were injured in a shooting in downtown Austin

Oh, and the actual solution for this?  Britain.  Take the guns away from everybody including the regular police.  The notion that we can somehow overthrow the FedGov with our guns is just ludicrous.  This was proven in 1861 - 1865, and they had cannons too.

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#29 2021-06-12 18:03:58

Now they are trying to ban anything but kitchen utensils in the UK... the rate of stabbings is up, and guns are flowing in.  Yeah, a war on Guns.  It worked so well with the War on Drugs, right?  So, you'll seize 400 million or so guns? Good luck with that.  Don't address the underlying issues.  That guarantees success every time. 

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library … un-control

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExMz5bVVIAg8btH?format=jpg&name=large

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#30 2021-06-12 18:07:37

"You don't need a gun to defend yourself, just call the police!"
https://i.redd.it/qp1a6gf813471.jpg

"Don't rely on other armed men, arm yourself and train. Police usually come when the victim is dead."
https://external-preview.redd.it/eCZ-fgSYe3irmTCYkgSAXghn12g9bOnnyXWrBuW8ItQ.png?auto=webp&s=99118ca96bd64535d58100c7deaf49e1a56197d8

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#31 2021-06-12 21:02:17

Yep.  And if you're so scared, buy a dog.

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#32 2021-06-12 21:56:13

Baywolfe wrote:

Yep.  And if you're so scared, buy a dog.

Oh, I agree.

My local area has been having a surge of home invasions.  A dog would be great, trying to talk the landlord into it.

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#33 2021-06-14 08:05:08

SpacePuppy wrote:

Now they are trying to ban anything but kitchen utensils in the UK... the rate of stabbings is up, and guns are flowing in.  Yeah, a war on Guns.  It worked so well with the War on Drugs, right?  So, you'll seize 400 million or so guns? Good luck with that.  Don't address the underlying issues.  That guarantees success every time. 

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library … un-control

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExMz5bVVIAg … name=large

Thank you for this - I'm going to use it make Republican heads explode.

Of course, I still think the average citizen doesn't need anything bigger than a pistol. I'd allow for a single-shot hunting rifle for those who feel like their dick is too small and need to shoot defenseless animals to feel better about themselves.

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#34 2021-06-14 13:49:49

"I'd allow for a single-shot hunting rifle for those who feel like their dick is too small and need to shoot defenseless animals to feel better about themselves."

Incredibly generous and condescending all in one statement, quite the achievement. 

Honestly, I know hunters, and only a person who has never talked to one, or experienced what they do could come up with this, and no, I am not a hunter. Quit allowing your chosen media vector to poison you about the other for fuck sake. I am sure your description matches someone out there, most of the hunters I knew were subsistence hunters living in the countryside, supplementing piss poor wages and opportunities. You shouldn't be so harsh on them.

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#35 2021-06-14 22:16:08

SpacePuppy wrote:

"I'd allow for a single-shot hunting rifle for those who feel like their dick is too small and need to shoot defenseless animals to feel better about themselves."

Incredibly generous and condescending all in one statement, quite the achievement. 

Honestly, I know hunters, and only a person who has never talked to one, or experienced what they do could come up with this, and no, I am not a hunter. Quit allowing your chosen media vector to poison you about the other for fuck sake. I am sure your description matches someone out there, most of the hunters I knew were subsistence hunters living in the countryside, supplementing piss poor wages and opportunities. You shouldn't be so harsh on them.

Fair enough to separate the two. Subsistence hunting is one thing, and doesn't require anything more than a single-shot rifle. The rest of my comment is directed at the assholes who think hunting is a sport. If it's sport you're after, hunt a bear with a machete.

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#36 2021-06-15 00:42:00

"If it's sport you're after, hunt a bear with a machete." I like that. I will remember.  I cannot stand people who kill for sport. 

I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle. There were guns capable of firing multiple rounds at the time of the Bill of Rights. That ship has sailed.  We have to address root causes of violence. 

Thanks for the dialogue, it is good to air these ideas, much appreciated.

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#38 2021-06-15 21:09:00

Oh Goody, This'll Fox 'Em.
https://external-preview.redd.it/JJ3c1xGiT1tkoX3HVTlOsSy2NwEPR2io8_AYUIIGSJY.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=293d9452ab2135acac01f941de3986f4436af551

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#39 2021-06-16 07:42:22

Please explain the underlying cause of this:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/14/us/georg … index.html

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#40 2021-06-16 12:49:33

BorderCount wrote:

Please explain the underlying cause of this:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/14/us/georg … index.html

Easy. Politicization of a health crisis, combined with a failed mental health infrastructure, and the accompanying deterioration of wages, jobs and other social pressures brought on by 40 plus years of trickle down economics with a healthy dollop of Tucker Carlson and his ilk promulgating BS to poorly educated people who are incredibly desperate.

Last edited by SpacePuppy (2021-06-16 12:50:21)

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#41 2021-06-17 08:36:22

Oooh, you were so close.

You got the politicization of a health crisis. But after that, it's really about an overblown sense of entitlement and easy access to a lethal weapon.

But we DO have some lovely parting gifts for you!

(Note: all the other stuff absolutely applies in other situations. Just not this one.)

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#43 2021-06-17 12:02:39

Okay, kinda weary of this circle jerk, but do carry on. 

Offer one plausible scenario that doesn't include trampling on people's current rights or re-writing the constitution. Otherwise, it is just venting.

I truly believe it is systemic and is tied directly to a failing system, but if you honestly believe that an inanimate object can cause harm without the human interface...

Please, have the last word. Tell me your solution, a solution that would actually work. Spare me the outrage, offer a solution that will work.

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#44 2021-06-17 12:37:19

SpacePuppy wrote:

Okay, kinda weary of this circle jerk, but do carry on. 

Offer one plausible scenario that doesn't include trampling on people's current rights or re-writing the constitution. Otherwise, it is just venting.

I truly believe it is systemic and is tied directly to a failing system, but if you honestly believe that an inanimate object can cause harm without the human interface...

Please, have the last word. Tell me your solution, a solution that would actually work. Spare me the outrage, offer a solution that will work.

The Constitution has been a living document since 1787.  Once a negro was 3/5 of a person, hence the 16th Amendment.  None of your solutions will work with the current setup of our State and Federal Governments, so enjoy a regular reminder that making excuses and whining around your "rights" is doing nothing to stop the violence.  As batshit crazy as our Texas Governor is, I'm expecting I can post multiple gun deaths every day, all summer.

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#45 2021-06-17 13:27:59

So, your solution?  I am no fan of crazies with guns. Yet we are set to literally remove the rights, regardless of the past, the rights held now of some 125 or more million citizens for some 12k murders a year.  Do the numbers.  The solutions I offer, are all actually talking points of the Dems platform(s) if I am not mistaken. 

As a snide aside, will you lead the charge to confiscate lawfully owned firearms from non-criminals?  Do you want others to do it for you to impose your will?

Or do we address the rot?

We have somee 225,000 deaths a year from medical malpractice.  No, not murder, but where is the outrage? A big meh? 600,000 citizens dead from Covid? No outrage? One outrage is obviously more important than the others.

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#46 2021-06-17 23:28:00

Oh, believe you me, I'm all sorts of outraged over Covid, and I lay the bulk of those 600,000 American deaths at the feet of Agent Orange for ::shocked face:: doing nothing.

One jackass put some matches in his shoes, now we all have to take our shoes off at the airport, despite the 4th Amendment. Don't even get me started on those stupid body scanners.

The other key difference with guns is that they serve exactly one purpose: to kill. That is their only function, the sole reason for their existence. So, yes, there should absolutely be some limits there, otherwise the proliferation of guns in public is only going to make things worse.


Sometimes, I think you're being intentionally obtuse about this.

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#47 2021-06-18 12:55:07

BorderCount wrote:

Sometimes, I think you're being intentionally obtuse about this.

We can only hope it's intentional. 

The argument for why we need guns keeps changing and are, except for the original intent, all lies.  At first it was because we had no standing military, police, etc. and we needed to hunt to eat.  Then it was to overthrow a dictatorship but, when we actually had one in 2016 - 2020 they stood by and did nothing.  Now it's to defend ourselves against other people who have guns, which just borders on insanity (unless you live in a ghetto).

It's their cause and, therefore, must be their solution.  The notion that our government will ever fix things through improving social conditions is beyond naive.  We can't even get them to pass incredibly sensible background checks, much less assault weapon bans.  And in the great state of Texas, you can now open carry without even needing a permit or any prior instruction.  Texas is primed to have the first mass shooting that starts with one person and expands exponentially as everybody opens fire at each other.

The GOP and the great orange blob prey on fear.  Guns are one of the biggest tools in their toolbox, although I bet you that his orangeness actually hates guns.  Just like he "loves" America when it's clear he hates it and us.

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#48 2021-06-18 16:52:18

Have you already (allegedly) killed a child with your penis extension gun during a road rage incident?  No, problem, grab another gun days later and rage on!

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#49 2021-06-18 17:09:41

Baywolfe wrote:

Have you already (allegedly) killed a child with your penis extension gun during a road rage incident?  No, problem, grab another gun days later and rage on!

I was gonna link that one next, myself.

Too bad California is about wuss out on the death penalty, because that fucktard deserves it. Not only did he kill a small child, but upon finding out he did he went out of his way to stop driving that vehicle and radically change his appearance. He's guilty as shit and he fucking knew it.

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