sofaking wrote:

You who counter my assertions are assuming I don't know "real" depression...

I was offered antidepressants then, too. I refused them. I'm too much of a bitch to die complacently, and as I said in my last post, I have already fucked with my  neurochemistry too much to willingly do it again.

I'm also intimately acquainted with a lack of serotonin, having raped my own receptors for years with fuckloads of coke and amphetamines, then going cold turkey 4 years ago, never to touch the shit again. Caffeine (or even cocaine) can't touch it, once you've screwed that pooch. It takes years to reattain even low levels of the neurotransmitters you've manipulated your brain into squandering. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. I struggled to enjoy my charmed life. Boo fucking hoo, is what I would tell myself. I forced myself to suck it up, hoping it would resolve itself. It did. It was an agony I wouldn't wish on anyone.

But it was my agony, and life's a fucking cunt. It's also a bitchin' miracle I get to share with some beautiful people. I'm happier than ever. I ain't gonna die, and I no longer desire to ingest alkaloid chemicals, regardless of how "happy" they once made me.

I'm not a martyr or a masochist. I'm the most fun person you could imagine. Even when I feel like shit.

I stated earlier that it's okay to take Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, if that's your bag. But l stand by my conviction that emotions need to be experienced, even if they hurt. Pain serves a function. If one is self-aware enough to acknowledge that their reasons for feeling sad are trivial enough to need to be eradicated, then perhaps everyone needs SSRIs. Painful feelings (for a specific reason, or even simply intrinsic genetically inherited sadness) perhaps should just be abolished outright, like the pain of childbirth has been medicated away, thanks to the miracle of modern medicine.

Some people have valid reasons to off themselves or others. SSRIs greatly exacerbate the problem in so many people, it's scary. I'm glad it works for the people who have endorsed their use, but we all have to experience the darker side of the human condition sometimes. For long and painful periods of time, even. It builds character. As far as I know, the only animals who kill themselves are humans and lemmings. I don't know why lemmings do it (peer pressure?), but I know that humans do it because they are self-aware, and look upon it as a way to permanently end the pain of life. All the other animals are too busy living in the now (regardless of their specific fortunate or unfortunate circumstances) to consider such a thing. Same thing goes for anorexia/bulemia and self mutilation (two other conditions that SSRIs are prescribed for).

Knowing our own mortality and the cruelty of life makes humans sad. And sad people take desperate measures to alleviate the pain that accompanies this awareness. Religion, psychoanalysis, drugs, and High Street have all been created to help us deal with it. Choose your opiate wisely.

Now....back to our regularly scheduled fucktardery. This topic sucks balls.

You know, I had to take a break from the computer before even coming back to respond to this. I don't know shit about the economy or how to fix it, I don't know shit about foreign policy...but I do know about depression.

Why is it, Sofie, that when someone gets cancer, noone says, "Hey, I'm just saying..maybe you shouldn't treat it aggressively because after all, cancer builds character!" Why is it when someone has HIV noone walks up to the bathroom door as they shit their guts out behind it and says, "hey, man, maybe you should lay off the cocktail..because after all, pain is necessary!"

Comparing depression to childbirth as somehow a natural part of life that is artificially sanitized for our protection by Big Pharma or the medical establishment is not only bullshit, but dangerous bullshit.

Depression is a clinical, lethal disease that kills people. Period. It's not just feeling bad because your boyfriend dumped you, or experiencing pain and loss because you got downsized at GM. It's a physically measurable, physically damaging illness that ruins peoples lives forever. To suggest, especially as a pot smoker!!!-that there is some kind of-ANY kind of moral down side to treating it can't be, really, just can't be what you're saying, if you think about it.

I respect you and plus you're gorgeous. I can't tolerate, however, for one instant, though, the inference that somehow SSRIS are this bandaid to slap on the minute things get tough. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

I won't bore you with links, but any real search on Google for legitimate medical sources (not anonymous blogs) will reveal the truth-that SSRIS have saved more lives than they've taken since they've been introduced. Does that mean everyone is going to do peachy on them? Like chemotherapy, or any legitimate medical treatment, of course not. But if you look at any serious suicide stats, you see that actually, suicide rates have declined in this country in all populations with access to these miracle drugs. Yes, miracle drugs. Drugs that don't, in general, make you tired, add 50 pounds, create opportunities for easy and lethal overdoses, create addictions, change personality or have to be constantly monitored to stave off potential damage to ones liver or kidneys.

Since Paxil has been largely ousted from the tool box of any good doc as a treatment for depression in teens, suicide rates have GONE UP in the teen population. Yes, gone up. But the vociferous, anti drug, frequently pro Scientology minority would never address that issue would they? Sad and pathetic.

Too many good people are out there refusing meds because they don't understand them. They think depression is, as you imply, Part of The Circle of Life- (Should Emmeran's ex have passed on life saving surgery and left her kids mom-less because heart disease Builds Character?)-or, as you also imply, that SSRIs are just the same as opiates (not even close!) or pot (a depressant by the way, as well as an appetite stimulant)  or god forbid, meth.

The truth is, SSRIS are not for everyone. But they sure as hell can help  a lot of people. Misinformation and attaching this kind of "well, I'm gonna white knuckle it because that somehow is the more noble choice "(like giving birth without meds)) is just dangerous. I could now segue into the stats on how damaging depression in parents is to kids (having a depressed parent is worse, in terms of effects on kids functioning and future functioning than even having a schizophrenic parent) but I won't.

I'm glad Taint is alive. I'm glad Outthere is alive, and has a fucking dog. I hope Bigcat gets another one. I'm sure as hell grateful to my higher power to be alive.
And I'm glad you don't have to pee in a bag, either. So let's focus on health, and what we can do to maintain that, instead of the judgement. That's all and more than enough.

Sarah (Toe)

Last edited by icangetyouatoe (2008-12-18 13:28:39)

GooberMcNutly wrote:

jesusluvspegging wrote:

I first had suicidal thoughts in seventh grade.

I was having this discussion with my Mom, a social worker and therapist for the last 30 years. I posited that thoughts of suicide are normal and a regular part of our internal dialog. Who doesn't wonder what it would like to be dead, or what our friends would say or if it would hurt. It's like pedophilia. It's when you take action that you cross the line.

Certainly in my experience that's true, although now that I think about it, I haven't had thoughts like that in several months. A couple of years ago I mentioned it to my psychiatrist, noting that the thoughts weren't despairing, wailing vows to end it all now, but were simple and brief statements. "I should kill myself" I'd think, very much along the same lines as "I should pick up a liter of milk".

He told me it was my brain just weighing its options.

icangetyouatoe wrote:

Taint, have you ever read "man's search for meaning" by Victor Frankel?

I've never read it, but I did enjoy The Jerk, a heartwarming story of a young man's search for his Special Purpose in life.

icangetyouatoe wrote:

Taint, have you ever read "man's search for meaning" by Victor Frankel?

A little quote from Frankel, although not from the book (which I have read):

Don't aim at success - the more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of one's surrender to a person other than oneself. Happiness must happen, and the same holds for success: you have to let it happen by not caring about it. I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge. Then you will live to see that in the long-run - in the long-run, I say! - success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think about it.



And another quote that nears the essence of existentialism:

We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.

Fled wrote:

icangetyouatoe wrote:

Taint, have you ever read "man's search for meaning" by Victor Frankel?

A little quote from Frankel, although not from the book (which I have read):

Don't aim at success - the more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of one's surrender to a person other than oneself. Happiness must happen, and the same holds for success: you have to let it happen by not caring about it. I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge. Then you will live to see that in the long-run - in the long-run, I say! - success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think about it.



And another quote that nears the essence of existentialism:

We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.

I think there's a lot to that. When I was counseling kids, one of the points I tried hardest to convey - and a few of the kids actually got it - was that the only thing they could actually control about their often shitty circumstances was how they reacted to them. It's an incredibly powerful realization, and one of these days I hope to master it, myself.

Zookeeper wrote:

icangetyouatoe wrote:

Sarah (Toe)

Holy shit!  Toe's a chick?

You obviously missed the picture of her pretty self and spawn.

icangetyouatoe wrote:

sofaking wrote:

You who counter my assertions are assuming I don't know "real" depression...

I was offered antidepressants then, too. I refused them. I'm too much of a bitch to die complacently, and as I said in my last post, I have already fucked with my  neurochemistry too much to willingly do it again.

I'm also intimately acquainted with a lack of serotonin, having raped my own receptors for years with fuckloads of coke and amphetamines, then going cold turkey 4 years ago, never to touch the shit again. Caffeine (or even cocaine) can't touch it, once you've screwed that pooch. It takes years to reattain even low levels of the neurotransmitters you've manipulated your brain into squandering. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. I struggled to enjoy my charmed life. Boo fucking hoo, is what I would tell myself. I forced myself to suck it up, hoping it would resolve itself. It did. It was an agony I wouldn't wish on anyone.

But it was my agony, and life's a fucking cunt. It's also a bitchin' miracle I get to share with some beautiful people. I'm happier than ever. I ain't gonna die, and I no longer desire to ingest alkaloid chemicals, regardless of how "happy" they once made me.

I'm not a martyr or a masochist. I'm the most fun person you could imagine. Even when I feel like shit.

I stated earlier that it's okay to take Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, if that's your bag. But l stand by my conviction that emotions need to be experienced, even if they hurt. Pain serves a function. If one is self-aware enough to acknowledge that their reasons for feeling sad are trivial enough to need to be eradicated, then perhaps everyone needs SSRIs. Painful feelings (for a specific reason, or even simply intrinsic genetically inherited sadness) perhaps should just be abolished outright, like the pain of childbirth has been medicated away, thanks to the miracle of modern medicine.

Some people have valid reasons to off themselves or others. SSRIs greatly exacerbate the problem in so many people, it's scary. I'm glad it works for the people who have endorsed their use, but we all have to experience the darker side of the human condition sometimes. For long and painful periods of time, even. It builds character. As far as I know, the only animals who kill themselves are humans and lemmings. I don't know why lemmings do it (peer pressure?), but I know that humans do it because they are self-aware, and look upon it as a way to permanently end the pain of life. All the other animals are too busy living in the now (regardless of their specific fortunate or unfortunate circumstances) to consider such a thing. Same thing goes for anorexia/bulemia and self mutilation (two other conditions that SSRIs are prescribed for).

Knowing our own mortality and the cruelty of life makes humans sad. And sad people take desperate measures to alleviate the pain that accompanies this awareness. Religion, psychoanalysis, drugs, and High Street have all been created to help us deal with it. Choose your opiate wisely.

Now....back to our regularly scheduled fucktardery. This topic sucks balls.

You know, I had to take a break from the computer before even coming back to respond to this. I don't know shit about the economy or how to fix it, I don't know shit about foreign policy...but I do know about depression.

Why is it, Sofie, that when someone gets cancer, noone says, "Hey, I'm just saying..maybe you shouldn't treat it aggressively because after all, cancer builds character!" Why is it when someone has HIV noone walks up to the bathroom door as they shit their guts out behind it and says, "hey, man, maybe you should lay off the cocktail..because after all, pain is necessary!"

Comparing depression to childbirth as somehow a natural part of life that is artificially sanitized for our protection by Big Pharma or the medical establishment is not only bullshit, but dangerous bullshit.

Depression is a clinical, lethal disease that kills people. Period. It's not just feeling bad because your boyfriend dumped you, or experiencing pain and loss because you got downsized at GM. It's a physically measurable, physically damaging illness that ruins peoples lives forever. To suggest, especially as a pot smoker!!!-that there is some kind of-ANY kind of moral down side to treating it can't be, really, just can't be what you're saying, if you think about it.

I respect you and plus you're gorgeous. I can't tolerate, however, for one instant, though, the inference that somehow SSRIS are this bandaid to slap on the minute things get tough. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

I won't bore you with links, but any real search on Google for legitimate medical sources (not anonymous blogs) will reveal the truth-that SSRIS have saved more lives than they've taken since they've been introduced. Does that mean everyone is going to do peachy on them? Like chemotherapy, or any legitimate medical treatment, of course not. But if you look at any serious suicide stats, you see that actually, suicide rates have declined in this country in all populations with access to these miracle drugs. Yes, miracle drugs. Drugs that don't, in general, make you tired, add 50 pounds, create opportunities for easy and lethal overdoses, create addictions, change personality or have to be constantly monitored to stave off potential damage to ones liver or kidneys.

Since Paxil has been largely ousted from the tool box of any good doc as a treatment for depression in teens, suicide rates have GONE UP in the teen population. Yes, gone up. But the vociferous, anti drug, frequently pro Scientology minority would never address that issue would they? Sad and pathetic.

Too many good people are out there refusing meds because they don't understand them. They think depression is, as you imply, Part of The Circle of Life- (Should Emmeran's ex have passed on life saving surgery and left her kids mom-less because heart disease Builds Character?)-or, as you also imply, that SSRIs are just the same as opiates (not even close!) or pot (a depressant by the way, as well as an appetite stimulant)  or god forbid, meth.

The truth is, SSRIS are not for everyone. But they sure as hell can help  a lot of people. Misinformation and attaching this kind of "well, I'm gonna white knuckle it because that somehow is the more noble choice "(like giving birth without meds)) is just dangerous. I could now segue into the stats on how damaging depression in parents is to kids (having a depressed parent is worse, in terms of effects on kids functioning and future functioning than even having a schizophrenic parent) but I won't.

I'm glad Taint is alive. I'm glad Outthere is alive, and has a fucking dog. I hope Bigcat gets another one. I'm sure as hell grateful to my higher power to be alive.
And I'm glad you don't have to pee in a bag, either. So let's focus on health, and what we can do to maintain that, instead of the judgement. That's all and more than enough.

Sarah (Toe)

My problem isn't so much depression as it is the mental health care racket, in general.

I couldn't believe, when I worked in health insurance, that there are actual valid mental health conditions called, "disruptive child disorder"? Things that ARE perfectly normal, in our fucked-up "P.C." "everyone has to be a winner" society have now become "disorders", treatable only by large doses of mind-numbing medication, to be taken until the illness passes (what we once called "puberty").

"What? Your child said, 'no' to you? We must get them on medication immediately or next they'll be mad at you! Also, give them everything they tell you the other kids have because we can't be upsetting them!".

fucked up

Last edited by ptah13 (2008-12-18 16:26:57)

ptah13 wrote:

My problem isn't so much depression as it is the mental health care racket, in general.

I couldn't believe, when I worked in health insurance, that there are actual valid mental health conditions called, "disruptive child disorder"? Things that ARE perfectly normal, in our fucked-up "P.C." "everyone has to be a winner" society have no become "disorders".

They are putting the long-term drugs in the young children for saying, "no" to their parents....

fucked up

Well, yes and no.  It's like the hyperactivity thing.  There are plenty of kids being over-prescribed drugs for that, I'm sure, but I've met a kid who definitely needed them.  His condition was so bad that it was amazing, and it would prevent him from being able to participate in the simplest of tasks.  Fucker split my arm open with a metal pipe once, too.  My point is that everybody has some of these issues, but it's those people for whom it is extreme enough that it becomes an impediment to living their lives that medication may be an option.  I don't know anything about disruptive child disorder, I'm talking in generalities.

tojo2000 wrote:

ptah13 wrote:

My problem isn't so much depression as it is the mental health care racket, in general.

I couldn't believe, when I worked in health insurance, that there are actual valid mental health conditions called, "disruptive child disorder"? Things that ARE perfectly normal, in our fucked-up "P.C." "everyone has to be a winner" society have no become "disorders".

They are putting the long-term drugs in the young children for saying, "no" to their parents....

fucked up

Well, yes and no.  It's like the hyperactivity thing.  There are plenty of kids being over-prescribed drugs for that, I'm sure, but I've met a kid who definitely needed them.  His condition was so bad that it was amazing, and it would prevent him from being able to participate in the simplest of tasks.  Fucker split my arm open with a metal pipe once, too.  My point is that everybody has some of these issues, but it's those people for whom it is extreme enough that it becomes an impediment to living their lives that medication may be an option.  I don't know anything about disruptive child disorder, I'm talking in generalities.

Well, that's what tazers are for.  Next time he picks up a pipe, well taze the little monster.

jesusluvspegging wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

Well, that's what tazers are for.  Next time he picks up a pipe, well taze the little monster.

I've said for years that new parents should be issued a tranquilizer gun and a bottle of thorazine.


...of course, I think everyone ought to carry a tranq gun with them at all times with a variety of different loads.  Just put 500 ug of LSD into somebody's neck when they're pissing you off, or somesuch.

Where are you at, RIGHT NOW, and what is the best way to piss you off?!?!?!?!?!?!

(jumping up and down in place.... looks at watch...)

tojo2000 wrote:

ptah13 wrote:

My problem isn't so much depression as it is the mental health care racket, in general.

I couldn't believe, when I worked in health insurance, that there are actual valid mental health conditions called, "disruptive child disorder"? Things that ARE perfectly normal, in our fucked-up "P.C." "everyone has to be a winner" society have no become "disorders".

They are putting the long-term drugs in the young children for saying, "no" to their parents....

fucked up

Well, yes and no.  It's like the hyperactivity thing.  There are plenty of kids being over-prescribed drugs for that, I'm sure, but I've met a kid who definitely needed them.  His condition was so bad that it was amazing, and it would prevent him from being able to participate in the simplest of tasks.  Fucker split my arm open with a metal pipe once, too.  My point is that everybody has some of these issues, but it's those people for whom it is extreme enough that it becomes an impediment to living their lives that medication may be an option.  I don't know anything about disruptive child disorder, I'm talking in generalities.

Check out this page:

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec19/ch300/ch300e.html

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Oppositional defiant disorder is a recurrent or persistent pattern of negative, defiant, or even hostile behavior directed at authority figures. Diagnosis is by history. Treatment is individual psychotherapy combined with family or caretaker therapy. Occasionally, drugs may be used to reduce irritability.

Conduct Disorder

Conduct disorder is a recurrent or persistent pattern of behavior that violates the rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules. Diagnosis is by history. No treatment has been proven effective, and many children require considerable supervision.

Hahahah Oppositional Defiant Disorder hahahaha

What, you mean, umm, your child is behaving EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER PRE-TEEN!!! GOd NO!! We can't have that!! Here, lets dope him up for the next 6-8 years and that will put a stop to this "acting like a normal kid" crap once and for all!!!


hahahaha "pattern of negative, defiant, or even hostile behavior directed at authority figures."... hahahahaha

Umm, when we were kids, if you DIDN'T act like this, other children made fun of you. Hell, ever watch "The Breakfast Club"? The one kid that didn't act like that (i.e. The NERD) was the lowest child in the school caste system, a total outcast. What a sick society we live in, that all "normal" kids are considered suffering from a mental health disorder.

Thank god they didn't have this 1st-rate doctorin' back in the 60's or we'd still have women as 2nd rate citizens, blacks on the back of the bus and still be fighting in southeast asia. Too bad they just couldn't dope up that entire generation to put a stop to that "negative, defiant or hostile behavior directed at authority figures" that those obviously sick kids exhibited during that time. Back then, those kids were seen as passionate youth fighting for a cause. Based on today's brilliant advances in mental health, we now know that each and every one of those kids were very sick and needed medication and hospitalization. The very last thing they needed was to be validated with the changing of laws!!!!

ptah13 wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

ptah13 wrote:

My problem isn't so much depression as it is the mental health care racket, in general.

I couldn't believe, when I worked in health insurance, that there are actual valid mental health conditions called, "disruptive child disorder"? Things that ARE perfectly normal, in our fucked-up "P.C." "everyone has to be a winner" society have no become "disorders".

They are putting the long-term drugs in the young children for saying, "no" to their parents....

fucked up

Well, yes and no.  It's like the hyperactivity thing.  There are plenty of kids being over-prescribed drugs for that, I'm sure, but I've met a kid who definitely needed them.  His condition was so bad that it was amazing, and it would prevent him from being able to participate in the simplest of tasks.  Fucker split my arm open with a metal pipe once, too.  My point is that everybody has some of these issues, but it's those people for whom it is extreme enough that it becomes an impediment to living their lives that medication may be an option.  I don't know anything about disruptive child disorder, I'm talking in generalities.

Check out this page:

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec19/ch300/ch300e.html

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Oppositional defiant disorder is a recurrent or persistent pattern of negative, defiant, or even hostile behavior directed at authority figures. Diagnosis is by history. Treatment is individual psychotherapy combined with family or caretaker therapy. Occasionally, drugs may be used to reduce irritability.

Conduct Disorder

Conduct disorder is a recurrent or persistent pattern of behavior that violates the rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules. Diagnosis is by history. No treatment has been proven effective, and many children require considerable supervision.

Hahahah Oppositional Defiant Disorder hahahaha

What, you mean, umm, your child is behaving EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER PRE-TEEN!!! GOd NO!! We can't have that!! Here, lets dope him up for the next 6-8 years and that will put a stop to this "acting like a normal kid" crap once and for all!!!


hahahaha "pattern of negative, defiant, or even hostile behavior directed at authority figures."... hahahahaha

Umm, when we were kids, if you DIDN'T act like this, other children made fun of you. Hell, ever watch "The Breakfast Club"? The one kid that didn't act like that (i.e. The NERD) was the lowest child in the school caste system, a total outcast. What a sick society we live in, that all "normal" kids are considered suffering from a mental health disorder.

Thank god they didn't have this 1st-rate doctorin' back in the 60's or we'd still have women as 2nd rate citizens, blacks on the back of the bus and still be fighting in southeast asia. Too bad they just couldn't dope up that entire generation to put a stop to that "negative, defiant or hostile behavior directed at authority figures" that those obviously sick kids exhibited during that time. Back then, those kids were seen as passionate youth fighting for a cause. Based on today's brilliant advances in mental health, we now know that each and every one of those kids were very sick and needed medication and hospitalization. The very last thing they needed was to be validated with the changing of laws!!!!

You have selective reading disorder.

Decadence wrote:

sofaking wrote:

As far as I know, the only animals who kill themselves are humans and lemmings.

Actually, that's a myth (Perpetuated by those bastards at Disney).  Lemmings do not jump off of cliffs in a mass-suicide ritual.

I know, that's just silly. Everyone knows they put on heavy makeup, read dark poetry, and then slash their tiny little wrists.

ptah13 wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

You have selective reading disorder.

If by "selective reading" you mean "quoted directly from the Merck pharma page", then, sir, you are correct.

I'm sorry, but in today's society, parents are no longer accountable for their bad parenting. You spoil your child, then your child acts EXACTLY like a spoiled child would act, and the mental health industry tells you, "oh no, it's not you our your childs fault, it's Oppositional Defiant Disorder! Today's society encourages parents to let their kids walk all over them, and then when the little monsters get out of hand we simply dope them up....

Keep making excuses for it, Tojo. Obviously I've hit some nerve, a little close to home. I knew there was something about you familiar. We have a whole society full of people, young and old, who refuse to take responsibility for their actions and depend on big pharma and the mental health industry as their scapegoats. You obviously are neck-deep in this sea of moronics. "oh no, it's not MY FAULT! I suffer from Oppositional Defiant Disorder! I can't be held responsible for any of my actions or anything I say! It's REAL CONDITION!"

a whole society of people raised on the idea that they can do whatever they want and not be responsible for their actions... keep making excuses, Tojo.... It is no real surprise to me.

By Selective Reading Disorder I mean that you posted only the one sentence that was the super-simplified explanation and somehow missed the entire rest of the article that went to great pains to point out that it was not just a kid who talked back, that great care should be taken in diagnosis because the symptoms are very subjective, it is not generally a physiological condition, and in most cases even without treatment it will get better.  The description of the behavior is above and beyond what most of us would experience with a child as well, and this is not the definitive literature on the disorder, just an executive summary for people skimming the web. 

Basically you read what you wanted to read and skipped everything that didn't fit your rant.

I'm not even disagreeing with you that there are people who are so overboard on this stuff that they start seeing disorders wherever they look, and that the level of treatment, especially with pharmaceuticals, seems very high.  That doesn't mean that the disorder doesn't exist.

Oh, for the record, saying children who rebel against authority figures have some sort of illness is beyond funny to me.

So, yeah, I'm saying the disorder doesn't exist. Just because some pharma company wants to make money doesn't mean a disorder exists.

ptah13 wrote:

Once again, you're completely full of shit, but I'm use to you folk feeling you need the last word so I'm sure I've not heard the last of you.

You: "Basically you read what you wanted to read and skipped everything that didn't fit your rant."

You: "you posted only the one sentence that was the super-simplified explanation and somehow missed the entire rest of the article"

Reality: I posted the italicized definition of each disorder AND provided a link to the rest of the article. I did not leave out one scrap of the ITALICIZED DEFINITION that followed the diagnosis. I did not post the entire article, as you somehow claim I should have. I only posted the offered definition, without "selecting" anything other than the ENTIRE definition provided by the article. I'm sorry that the defintion, that I didn't omit any of, was "over-simplified", by your standards. Take that up with society, not me. I did not "select" anything, other than the ENTIRE definition that was provided.

Once again, as you always do, you say something about me that is complete unfounded bullshit. In all my years dealing with morons, I don't think I've ever met anyone quite as bad as you, Tojo. Congrats!

My guess is, either you have no kids or your kids are on lithium, which would explain a lot either way.

Once again, my point is that a society that considers this a medical definition is a society of morons.

You selected the simplistic one-line summary and then posted a link to the article that completely contradicts your conclusions about the summary.  I was being generous and assuming that you weren't just in idiot.  My deepest apologies.

Ptah.  I'll bring the cucumbers and you bring the bacon grease.

tojo2000 wrote:

Ptah.  I'll bring the cucumbers and you bring the bacon grease.

hahahahahaha

ok, you made me laugh...

tojo2000 wrote:

ptah13 wrote:

Once again, you're completely full of shit, but I'm use to you folk feeling you need the last word so I'm sure I've not heard the last of you.

You: "Basically you read what you wanted to read and skipped everything that didn't fit your rant."

You: "you posted only the one sentence that was the super-simplified explanation and somehow missed the entire rest of the article"

Reality: I posted the italicized definition of each disorder AND provided a link to the rest of the article. I did not leave out one scrap of the ITALICIZED DEFINITION that followed the diagnosis. I did not post the entire article, as you somehow claim I should have. I only posted the offered definition, without "selecting" anything other than the ENTIRE definition provided by the article. I'm sorry that the defintion, that I didn't omit any of, was "over-simplified", by your standards. Take that up with society, not me. I did not "select" anything, other than the ENTIRE definition that was provided.

Once again, as you always do, you say something about me that is complete unfounded bullshit. In all my years dealing with morons, I don't think I've ever met anyone quite as bad as you, Tojo. Congrats!

My guess is, either you have no kids or your kids are on lithium, which would explain a lot either way.

Once again, my point is that a society that considers this a medical definition is a society of morons.

You selected the simplistic one-line summary and then posted a link to the article that completely contradicts your conclusions about the summary.  I was being generous and assuming that you weren't just in idiot.  My deepest apologies.

Again, I'm sorry but the diagnosis is complete bullshit, no matter what the pharma's pro-dopping propaganda says....

think about it for awhile, then post. It might help!

stay away from the bridge, another thread is coming.

And Taint, how do you know, if you or I or Outthere or whover abandon this thread, that a better thread is waiting for us in the great beyond? Noone can guarantee there is, you might find yourself in a worse thread...forever. There's always another one in this life, as Dusty put it.  That's the only thing we can count on-threads will come and go. Some shitty, some good, but they always change and things will never just stay crappy forever.

jesusluvspegging wrote:

icangetyouatoe wrote:

Ptah, as someone who diagnoses using those codes, I invite you to host a sleepover with my 7 and 8 year old squadron of ODD, ADHD and SLDs in one of the classes I supervise. I'll give you twenty million bucks if your house is still standing at the end of the night.

You underestimate the power of the Belt upon those who've never encountered it before.

Amen... I suspect the huge rise in demon monkey children has more to do with the "lets reason with the 4-year-old" bullshit than anything else.

Every single parent knows that, from DAY ONE, kids "test" their parents to see what they can get away with. Every minute of every day, children test their boundaries. When you let your child run like a wild-person, walk all over you and the child knows the worst that can happen is that you turn the playstation off for an hour... well... the obvious ensues....

Just because Toe, someone obviously well-vested in the mental-health industry (*cough*snake-oil*cough*), says so, doesn't make it real. I have no doubt there are kids with autisim and REAL disorders that require medication. I'm not talking about autistic kids, I'm talking about kids who say "no" to authority figures.

ptah13 wrote:

Wait,,, "ODD", that's the Oppositional Defiant Disorder you're referencing, right?

hahahahahaha "you should see my ODD kids, I dare you to spend the night with them"..... hahahaha

I guarantee you I'd cure them in one night.... My kids wanted to be ODD, but they were cured by this thing called "parenting". Something the mental health machine is obviously against...

I have a disorder which is the opposite of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). It's called Attention Surplus Syndrome (ASS).

icangetyouatoe wrote:

Most if not all drug addicts and alcoholics suffer from untreated mental illness which they are self medicating through their DOC.

It really depends if the drug use is as pathological as the behaviors it purports to replace, alleviate, or enhance.

ptah13 wrote:

pALEPHx wrote:

It really depends if the drug use is as pathological as the behaviors it purports to replace, alleviate, or enhance.

Did I suffer from "Lack of Swirlys on my Ceiling Disorder" (LScD) or perhaps "Longing to See your Dermis Melt Disorder" (LSDmd)?

Of course, the ability to explain such pathologies in cutesy terms nothwithstanding.