unless you are organizing sex workers, perverts, drug dealers or mercenaries, then I don't care. If there is no body fluid related to the post, this is likely not adventageous to promote here.

Seriously dude, I have no problems with you, I respect you and often agree with you. But c'mon, this is High Street. This post isn't cruel and allows me no schadenfreude at all. Politics will be the death of this place.

Last edited by orangeplus (2009-01-26 20:00:42)

Dusty: See what I mean?

Dirckman wrote:

Not a fan of the unions here....

May I respectfully direct your attention to America of the 1890s?



The argument you make, that unions are out of hand and should be stopped completely, is the same that people make about capitalism. It's about proportionality and moderation.

ah297900 wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

Not a fan of the unions here....

May I respectfully direct your attention to America of the 1890s?

http://teacherlink.org/content/social/i … worker.jpg

The argument you make, that unions are out of hand and should be stopped completely, is the same that people make about capitalism. It's about proportionality and moderation.

Wonderfully put.

Taint wrote:

Emmeran wrote:

I think we need more de-regulation and privatization; also more mega-mergers.  That should do the trick.

What kind of economic plan is that? You forgot subsidies.

Damn, I'm getting old. 

Yes, subsidies and no-bid contracts are a must.  Should we eliminate capital gains tax?  I mean is it really fair to tax people on income they didn't work for?

Dirck, for all the problems associated with unions nowadays, collective bargaining is the still the best option for workers. Unions helped bring my family - poor white hill trash on my dad's side and Midwestern farmers on my mother's - into the middle class.

I'll always support unions, but I have nothing against giving them a swift kick in the ass from time to time, either.

Dmtdust wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

Who said I agree with these things?  I'm not a Republican, the Republicans and the Neo-Conservatives have destroyed the image of Conservatism to the point that we've put a Socialist into power with a cabinet full of Communists...  I'm glad the Republicans are gone, I'm just not that impressed with what the American people have chosen to replace them with....  Proportionality has been mentioned in this thread and that's not what we're getting...  We're getting a slew of big government Republicans and big Government Democrats which are running us into the fucking ground....  Let the people make their own decisions for themselves, government should only be there to allow people the most opportunity to control their own destiny....

You wouldn't know a Socialist, or a Communist even if they came up and bit you on your Ass.  Obama is to Socialism what Rush is to Liberal.  Really.

I always suggest education.  I know, I know, but really, nothing like actually studying about it rather than blabbing talking someone elses talking points.  Pick up a few books on political theory, your game will improve.

I'll not take the time to mention the fallacies in your response, but how you differentiate Obama policy from Socialism is beyond me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy .....  You fail to realize that the number one thing that is important to me philosophically is that I consider individualism above all else, be it personal wealth or comfort...  I truly want the ability to choose my own destiny and I am against any system that prevents me from that.....  Your skewed political beliefs will not allow you to take another person's personal philosophy into account and that's extremely lame on your end....

Taint wrote:

Dirck, for all the problems associated with unions nowadays, collective bargaining is the still the best option for workers. Unions helped bring my family - poor white hill trash on my dad's side and Midwestern farmers on my mother's - into the middle class.

I'll always support unions, but I have nothing against giving them a swift kick in the ass from time to time, either.

I've always thought that the biggest problem with unions is that there is no endgame.  They generally pop up in response to something pretty egregious -- nobody really wants to be in one for the sake of being in one -- but once you have made the decision to start a union you are guaranteeing an adversarial relationship between the employees and employer rather than the normal mutual self-interest.  Once you've gone down that road, there's really no going back.

Also:

Dmtdust wrote:

Tojo... You really have no idea about labour history?

Are you saying that it's common for people to disband unions when they are no longer needed without them being "busted", or that it's not an issue?  I'm not against unions per se, I think that all has to do with what it's a reaction to.  All I'm saying is that once you start, you're stuck with it, the good and the bad.  The bad is that there is no option to go back to a non-adversarial relationship and that there is always a risk of a large union reaching a critical mass where it becomes self-sustaining, and then you have to worry about the motives of the decision makers.  The good is that collective bargaining is the only way that employees can deal with an employer on an equal level and get the employer to provide the pay and treatment that the market will bear rather than letting the employer be the one with all of the power.

I guess I'm not sure what you're objecting to, exactly.


Also:

Union's form their own corruption and bureaucracy though.  After several decades all unions fail to serve the people, and only act in their own self interests for kick backs.

So Dirck, did your family farm/ranch ever receive subsidiies from the Gov't of any sort?

Dmtdust wrote:

So Dirck, did your family farm/ranch ever receive subsidiies from the Gov't of any sort?

My family has never received any government subsidies of any kind...  We've raised sugar beets, corn to be used for silage and beef cattle...  I will admit that we have received a certain level of kickback from the Wyoming state government in the form of non-existent taxes....  They are able to do that by taxing the living shit out of the coal oil, and methane industries and to a lesser degree the railroads.....  I don't consider this to be that bad of a thing because it's done on the State rather than the Federal level.....  If they were to do away with that system and spread the taxes out a little more evenly I doubt that many would complain or threaten to throw these industries out because they are extremely good bedfellows....  I've got yet to hear one person from there complain about the coal, oil or methane industry due to their high-paying jobs and the large amounts of money they bring to the local economies...