Silly answer my friend, if your management sucks you should get better management.  If the contracts suck fix them and fire whoever signed them.  This is like General Motors arguing that it was the unions fault, no motherfuckers - you signed that fucking contract.

What I was able to do for Melons was the result of very hard work, at no point was it easy for us but we are dedicated to our children.  I had several go arounds with even that schools staff.  As voters we have to take control of our individual worlds.  I have been in this town for barely two weeks and am already positioned for several town committees'; what have you done?

Phred, did you ever once serve on the PTA board?  Ever teach classes or assist voluntarily?  I am waiting......

Emmeran wrote:

Silly answer my friend, if your management sucks you should get better management.  If the contracts suck fix them and fire whoever signed them.  This is like General Motors arguing that it was the unions fault, no motherfuckers - you signed that fucking contract.

What I was able to do for Melons was the result of very hard work, at no point was it easy for us but we are dedicated to our children.  I had several go arounds with even that schools staff.  As voters we have to take control of our individual worlds.  I have been in this town for barely two weeks and am already positioned for several town committees'; what have you done?

Do you realize how hypocritical you sound?  On the one had you say people in lousy school districts should rise up and fix the situation.  But, for your case, you said "vote with your feet" and go somewhere that has better schools.  Most people cannot afford to vote with their feet.  And, the state-wide educational cabal is so entrenched there is no way to fix it on a district by district basis.  When local districts have no power to approve curricula or fire bad teachers, the only choice is an alternate school.

phreddy wrote:

Do you realize how hypocritical you sound?  On the one had you say people in lousy school districts should rise up and fix the situation.  But, for your case, you said "vote with your feet" and go somewhere that has better schools.  Most people cannot afford to vote with their feet.  And, the state-wide educational cabal is so entrenched there is no way to fix it on a district by district basis.  When local districts have no power to approve curricula or fire bad teachers, the only choice is an alternate school.

Of course it was hypocrisy but at the same time it was the education of my children, gee wonder which way I went.  I moved my woman out of my house into the good school district at considerable expense.  Most people could not have afforded to do this, I was happy to because a young boy came home and said "they have grass". The LA school district is too large and a complete fucking mess, vouchers won't fix it - it just needs a complete re-org from top to bottom.  The contracts signed with the teachers union were utter bullshit and those that signed them should be held completely responsible.

But most importantly every parent needs to be responsible and that just isn't going to happen in LA.  I spent enough time driving into the ghetto's of LBC picking up players for practice to understand that; fuck the stories those boys told me are just shocking.  Fuck I feel sorry for the teachers, most of them are far beyond burnt out...

phreddy wrote:

I spent enough time driving into the ghetto's of LBC picking up players for practice to understand that; fuck the stories those boys told me are just shocking.  Fuck I feel sorry for the teachers, most of them are far beyond burnt out...

Sad indeed.  I agree that the system needs a top down revamp, but how is that ever going to happen?  At least vouchers give the responsible parents a fighting chance for their kids.

Vouchers give some children a fighting chance, I'm not ready to flush the rest of them down the toilet.  And the key words in your statement are "responsible parents" i.e. not those looking for a way to teach their kids religion under the guise of education.

Obedience.  Nuremberg.  I was just following orders.

It is hard to fathom, but you are probably correct.

Emmeran wrote:

**Edit:  Honestly Dusty it's hard to fathom anyone not this way, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps why I never followed the family path into the service.  I like issuing orders to myself, and not taking them from anyone else.

XregnaR wrote:

WTF happened to professional pride in appearance?!?  Those cops look like they ironed their uniforms with a potato....

It's hard to look dapper when you're strapped down with 15 pounds of taticool force escalation toys.

And now he wants us to buy him a pussy

Emmeran wrote:

Free fire zone, stay the fuck away if you don't want to die.  Definitely do not carry an AK-47 and it's best not to carry anything that could resemble a weapon; fog of war and all that.

On the other hand if you are going to invade and topple a murderous dictator (good thing) you should have a well established plan for afterwards, which we obviously did not (very bad thing).

On this we can agree.

One of the biggest fuckups, in both Iraq & Afghanistan, was the vacuum we created.  In Iraq, we failed to bring in enough MPs to help establish the rule of law, something the Iraqis desperately wanted us to do.  Thanks Rummy for that one (her personally intervened to reduce the number of MPs from ~50k to under 10k).  in Afghanistan, we grossly over estimated the ability of Karzai & friends to create and maintain order.  Again, if we had stepped in, a la Marshall Plan, rather than just assume the locals could handle it themselves, none of this shit would have splattered all over us.

All I'm saying is that the military is comparable to a loaded weapon, if you decide to point it and pull the trigger do not blame the weapon for the havoc and horror that ensues; blame not the arrow nor the bow but look to the archer. 

Fog of war is a horrible thing which bites both ways - that being said should I have been the one of the WSO's on that sortie I would have been firing also; their only concern was for the safety of their troops on the ground.  It's not an easy thing to fly "guardian angel" over a troop movement, judge not unless you have walked in those shoes.

It should also be said that the news agencies bear some of the responsibilities for this as they no longer consider the safety of their correspondents - only the search for the next big headline.  Why the hell were they in harms way?

Also worth consideration:  The two men we placed in power in Iraq and Afghanistan are now literal dictators in those countries and have held power for over a decade each.  Politically we seriously fucked this up from start to finish and everywhere in between.

Yup.  And now one side or the other is using some of that shit in Syria.

[tangent]
When I signed up, I was young, idealistic and truly blind to the complexities of human nature.  My goal was nothing less than to fly around the world, finding the bullies and kicking their fucking teeth in.

Problem is, as I have grown older, wiser (yeah right), more cynical; it gets harder and harder to figure out who exactly the bullies are.
[/tangent]

Last edited by XregnaR (2013-08-27 10:24:54)

Dmtdust wrote:

"My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military."

General Smedley Butler

Nicely quoted and quite true.  This is a necessary function particularly when the military reports to civilian political authority.  What this means in a nutshell is that the orders come from the populace via democratic vote, essentially the voting public is pulling the trigger.  The citizens action or inaction decided that path that we took and determines who lives or dies.

Look to yourself.

Dmtdust wrote:

Bullshit.  Keep telling yourself that, and you can dance past any responsibility for the rest of your life.

That's fine as I know you will be dancing with me.  Look to yourself voter, do not damn us for the tasks which you legally charged us with doing.

Fucking Monday morning quarterbacks always have all the answers.

Emmeran wrote:

This is a necessary function particularly when the military reports to civilian political authority.  What this means in a nutshell is that the orders come from the populace via democratic vote, essentially the voting public is pulling the trigger.  The citizens action or inaction decided that path that we took and determines who lives or dies.

Look to yourself.

Sure would be nice if the administration consulted anyone in Congress before deciding to commit more American lives to the fracas. I know that all seems so quaint and positively 20th century, but when did public debate about the use of armed aggression in foreign policy become a faux pa?

GooberMcNutly wrote:

I know that all seems so quaint and positively 20th century, but when did public debate about the use of armed aggression in foreign policy become a faux pa?

September 12, 2001.

Because if you aren't for personal, armed, aggressive response to sectarian violence 5000 miles away, you don't Support the Troops (R)(Tm)(C).

It's nice to see my namesake thread lives on.

Seven years is enough for being stupid.  I still pity that poor individual, what a fucked up life to have. 

I don't think Obama commuted the fines though, odds are Manning will never see a dime of profit from that attention ploy.  I see a career in dry cleaning or some such...

I agree with Emm.  The original sentence was severe to say the least.  She probably could be moved onto Death Watch.

Last edited by Fled (2017-01-19 06:20:11)