#251 2013-08-01 18:03:10

Emmeran wrote:

phreddy wrote:

A society where only those who can afford a better education or school choice learn to read,

That wouldn't have been me, I cut cord wood for a living as a youth.  The argument doesn't hold water at any point, if you offer neither jobs nor education all you will get is crime - history bears out these facts.  Educate, educate, educate...

You may not have been rich, but you had the resources to move Melons to a better school district for the sake of her child.  I'm saying we need to empower the poor who cannot escape their circumstances by allowing them to opt out of the local public school if a private school offers a better educational opportunity for their kids.  The only ones benefiting from requiring kids to attend second rate schools are the administrators, teachers and employees of those failing schools.  Why would you want to protect them at the expense of the children who are getting nothing from their education?

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#252 2013-08-01 18:48:49

Silly answer my friend, if your management sucks you should get better management.  If the contracts suck fix them and fire whoever signed them.  This is like General Motors arguing that it was the unions fault, no motherfuckers - you signed that fucking contract.

What I was able to do for Melons was the result of very hard work, at no point was it easy for us but we are dedicated to our children.  I had several go arounds with even that schools staff.  As voters we have to take control of our individual worlds.  I have been in this town for barely two weeks and am already positioned for several town committees'; what have you done?

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#253 2013-08-01 19:53:51

phreddy, you back the party which wants to cut education funding at every turn to spend more money on the corporate masters. Where, exactly, do you think the payments for these poor parents who choose a private school will come from? Who is going to pay for the transportation necessary to get these poor children to and from said school? Buy the books and supplies necessary for these children to compete? Obviously, it won't be tax dollars, as politicians lately seem to prefer the dumbing down of America to the education of America. The country is suffering because of it's education policies, among other things, and people continue to suggest ideas which would only exacerbate the problem, not help to fix it.

It is time for this country to invest heavily in the education of its children,  and stop pretending that everything will be alright the way things are. We have plummeted in every competitive category since the policies of cutting education began.

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#254 2013-08-01 22:32:06

Phred, did you ever once serve on the PTA board?  Ever teach classes or assist voluntarily?  I am waiting......

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#255 2013-08-02 01:43:58

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#256 2013-08-02 11:57:01

Emmeran wrote:

Silly answer my friend, if your management sucks you should get better management.  If the contracts suck fix them and fire whoever signed them.  This is like General Motors arguing that it was the unions fault, no motherfuckers - you signed that fucking contract.

What I was able to do for Melons was the result of very hard work, at no point was it easy for us but we are dedicated to our children.  I had several go arounds with even that schools staff.  As voters we have to take control of our individual worlds.  I have been in this town for barely two weeks and am already positioned for several town committees'; what have you done?

Do you realize how hypocritical you sound?  On the one had you say people in lousy school districts should rise up and fix the situation.  But, for your case, you said "vote with your feet" and go somewhere that has better schools.  Most people cannot afford to vote with their feet.  And, the state-wide educational cabal is so entrenched there is no way to fix it on a district by district basis.  When local districts have no power to approve curricula or fire bad teachers, the only choice is an alternate school.

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#257 2013-08-02 14:37:04

Just for the record.  Here is some info regarding Illinois teachers trying to pass a proficiency test.  The state raised the passing grades in order to try to get better teachers.  The passing grade was raised from as low as 35% to a blistering requirement of 75% on a test of skills equal to those of the average 11th grader.  These are the "teachers" coming out of college.  Here are the results.

Overall, the number of candidates who passed the exam dropped from 85 percent in previous years to 22 percent in September. Three percent of black test takers passed, down from 56 percent, and 7 percent of Latinos, down from 68 percent.

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#258 2013-08-02 15:18:44

phreddy wrote:

Do you realize how hypocritical you sound?  On the one had you say people in lousy school districts should rise up and fix the situation.  But, for your case, you said "vote with your feet" and go somewhere that has better schools.  Most people cannot afford to vote with their feet.  And, the state-wide educational cabal is so entrenched there is no way to fix it on a district by district basis.  When local districts have no power to approve curricula or fire bad teachers, the only choice is an alternate school.

Of course it was hypocrisy but at the same time it was the education of my children, gee wonder which way I went.  I moved my woman out of my house into the good school district at considerable expense.  Most people could not have afforded to do this, I was happy to because a young boy came home and said "they have grass". The LA school district is too large and a complete fucking mess, vouchers won't fix it - it just needs a complete re-org from top to bottom.  The contracts signed with the teachers union were utter bullshit and those that signed them should be held completely responsible.

But most importantly every parent needs to be responsible and that just isn't going to happen in LA.  I spent enough time driving into the ghetto's of LBC picking up players for practice to understand that; fuck the stories those boys told me are just shocking.  Fuck I feel sorry for the teachers, most of them are far beyond burnt out...

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#259 2013-08-02 16:12:31

I spent enough time driving into the ghetto's of LBC picking up players for practice to understand that; fuck the stories those boys told me are just shocking.  Fuck I feel sorry for the teachers, most of them are far beyond burnt out...

Sad indeed.  I agree that the system needs a top down revamp, but how is that ever going to happen?  At least vouchers give the responsible parents a fighting chance for their kids.

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#260 2013-08-02 18:12:09

phreddy wrote:

I spent enough time driving into the ghetto's of LBC picking up players for practice to understand that; fuck the stories those boys told me are just shocking.  Fuck I feel sorry for the teachers, most of them are far beyond burnt out...

Sad indeed.  I agree that the system needs a top down revamp, but how is that ever going to happen?  At least vouchers give the responsible parents a fighting chance for their kids.

Vouchers give some children a fighting chance, I'm not ready to flush the rest of them down the toilet.  And the key words in your statement are "responsible parents" i.e. not those looking for a way to teach their kids religion under the guise of education.

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#261 2013-08-03 23:07:31

Emmeran wrote:

It is simply sad that people didn't realize this and act on it far earlier - now it's popular to read from a script and condemn the actions of those you sent off to fight for you; so much for no more Vietnams.

Fuckin' A, bubba.  What the Marine says.

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#262 2013-08-05 14:04:48

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#263 2013-08-05 14:17:17

Dmtdust wrote:

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/935845_10200423965176932_1379009436_n.jpg

ahh get real - greed rules all.

Last edited by Emmeran (2013-08-05 14:18:02)

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#264 2013-08-05 14:32:32

Obedience.  Nuremberg.  I was just following orders.

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#265 2013-08-05 15:01:04

Dmtdust wrote:

Obedience.  Nuremberg.  I was just following orders.

Some people are built that way...

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#266 2013-08-05 15:01:52

It is hard to fathom, but you are probably correct.

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#267 2013-08-05 15:09:37

and some are born as berserkers, sending them out raiding is stupid - they are meant to guard the walls.  Once let slip the hounds of war will do what they were born to do.  Nurnberg was about dealing with those that slipped the leash on the hounds...



**Edit:  Honestly Dusty it's hard to fathom anyone not this way, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Last edited by Emmeran (2013-08-05 15:21:17)

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#268 2013-08-05 17:44:59

Emmeran wrote:

**Edit:  Honestly Dusty it's hard to fathom anyone not this way, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps why I never followed the family path into the service.  I like issuing orders to myself, and not taking them from anyone else.

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#269 2013-08-05 18:55:05

Dmtdust wrote:

Perhaps why I never followed the family path into the service.  I like issuing orders to myself, and not taking them from anyone else.

My son's elementary principle once told me that my son had an "overly developed sense of justice"; I'm quite sure it just runs in the blood.  This was after he jumped into a fight to defend someone and laid everything to waste around him. 

We don't always get to choose who we want to be and sometimes the path is charted from birth.  However the rest of us can choose how and when we unleash these people and we need to be very careful and we cannot turn on them when they act in their true nature at our bequest.  Look to the makers of war not the warriors.

Last edited by Emmeran (2013-08-05 18:57:32)

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#271 2013-08-06 08:59:47

WTF happened to professional pride in appearance?!?  Those cops look like they ironed their uniforms with a potato....

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#272 2013-08-06 16:50:14

XregnaR wrote:

WTF happened to professional pride in appearance?!?  Those cops look like they ironed their uniforms with a potato....

It's hard to look dapper when you're strapped down with 15 pounds of taticool force escalation toys.

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#273 2013-08-12 22:45:26

Defense:  Unfit to serve., sad fuck never should have been there.

**Edit:  Actually this part really pisses me off, several individuals did not do their assigned duties and for that this kid will rot in jail.  Hell just look at that picture in the article, one of these things just doesn't belong here. (credit to Sesame Street)  Poor kid was a train wreck waiting to happen and some useless rubber-stamping assholes threw the switch.  Fuck he was awaiting discharge on grounds at the time and they still allowed him access, WTF is that?   His story is coming to a sad end and I have come to pity him.

Last edited by Emmeran (2013-08-12 22:57:36)

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#275 2013-08-23 16:22:16

This thread title sure took an ironic turn, huh?

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#276 2013-08-26 14:42:43

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#277 2013-08-26 15:53:36

Dmtdust wrote:

Free fire zone, stay the fuck away if you don't want to die.  Definitely do not carry an AK-47 and it's best not to carry anything that could resemble a weapon; fog of war and all that.

On the other hand if you are going to invade and topple a murderous dictator (good thing) you should have a well established plan for afterwards, which we obviously did not (very bad thing).

Edit:  This is also the best argument mustered so far against the NRA's claims regarding "rogue government".

Last edited by Emmeran (2013-08-26 16:06:50)

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#278 2013-08-26 16:08:52

Emmeran wrote:

Free fire zone, stay the fuck away if you don't want to die.  Definitely do not carry an AK-47 and it's best not to carry anything that could resemble a weapon; fog of war and all that.

On the other hand if you are going to invade and topple a murderous dictator (good thing) you should have a well established plan for afterwards, which we obviously did not (very bad thing).

On this we can agree.

One of the biggest fuckups, in both Iraq & Afghanistan, was the vacuum we created.  In Iraq, we failed to bring in enough MPs to help establish the rule of law, something the Iraqis desperately wanted us to do.  Thanks Rummy for that one (her personally intervened to reduce the number of MPs from ~50k to under 10k).  in Afghanistan, we grossly over estimated the ability of Karzai & friends to create and maintain order.  Again, if we had stepped in, a la Marshall Plan, rather than just assume the locals could handle it themselves, none of this shit would have splattered all over us.

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#279 2013-08-26 20:22:49

Definitely don't carry a camera.  Just Sayin'.

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#280 2013-08-26 23:19:42

All I'm saying is that the military is comparable to a loaded weapon, if you decide to point it and pull the trigger do not blame the weapon for the havoc and horror that ensues; blame not the arrow nor the bow but look to the archer. 

Fog of war is a horrible thing which bites both ways - that being said should I have been the one of the WSO's on that sortie I would have been firing also; their only concern was for the safety of their troops on the ground.  It's not an easy thing to fly "guardian angel" over a troop movement, judge not unless you have walked in those shoes.

It should also be said that the news agencies bear some of the responsibilities for this as they no longer consider the safety of their correspondents - only the search for the next big headline.  Why the hell were they in harms way?

Also worth consideration:  The two men we placed in power in Iraq and Afghanistan are now literal dictators in those countries and have held power for over a decade each.  Politically we seriously fucked this up from start to finish and everywhere in between.

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#281 2013-08-26 23:34:50

XregnaR wrote:

One of the biggest fuckups, in both Iraq & Afghanistan, was the vacuum we created.  In Iraq, we failed to bring in enough MPs to help establish the rule of law, something the Iraqis desperately wanted us to do.  Thanks Rummy for that one (her personally intervened to reduce the number of MPs from ~50k to under 10k).  in Afghanistan, we grossly over estimated the ability of Karzai & friends to create and maintain order.  Again, if we had stepped in, a la Marshall Plan, rather than just assume the locals could handle it themselves, none of this shit would have splattered all over us.

Sadly it's even a bit worse than you could conceive, we captured several Munitions Depots and then left them unsecured, when we eventually returned to try and secure them we discovered - lo and behold they had been raided by rebels!  Gee who would have figured that?

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#282 2013-08-27 10:24:35

Yup.  And now one side or the other is using some of that shit in Syria.

[tangent]
When I signed up, I was young, idealistic and truly blind to the complexities of human nature.  My goal was nothing less than to fly around the world, finding the bullies and kicking their fucking teeth in.

Problem is, as I have grown older, wiser (yeah right), more cynical; it gets harder and harder to figure out who exactly the bullies are.
[/tangent]

Last edited by XregnaR (2013-08-27 10:24:54)

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#283 2013-08-27 10:54:40

Let me help you - we are the bullies now. 

However it should be noted that Germany and Japan are making strong comebacks recently.

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#284 2013-08-27 11:45:03

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#285 2013-08-29 19:21:12

"My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military."

General Smedley Butler

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#286 2013-08-29 21:51:14

Dmtdust wrote:

"My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military."

General Smedley Butler

Nicely quoted and quite true.  This is a necessary function particularly when the military reports to civilian political authority.  What this means in a nutshell is that the orders come from the populace via democratic vote, essentially the voting public is pulling the trigger.  The citizens action or inaction decided that path that we took and determines who lives or dies.

Look to yourself.

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#287 2013-08-30 01:39:47

Bullshit.  Keep telling yourself that, and you can dance past any responsibility for the rest of your life.

Last edited by Dmtdust (2013-08-30 01:40:13)

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#288 2013-08-30 02:00:15

Dmtdust wrote:

Bullshit.  Keep telling yourself that, and you can dance past any responsibility for the rest of your life.

That's fine as I know you will be dancing with me.  Look to yourself voter, do not damn us for the tasks which you legally charged us with doing.

Fucking Monday morning quarterbacks always have all the answers.

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#289 2013-08-30 03:45:05

I'm going to have to side with Dusty on this one. You're both making a big stretch saying that military orders spring fully-formed from the psyches of all voters, pass through elected officials like shit through a goose and roll straight downhill to platoon level. "Just following orders" hasn't been even a legal defense of atrocity since Nuremberg. 

Instead of blaming voters, I put the lions share of the blame on candidates who hire advertising geniuses to create marketing schemes that sell politicians like just another brand of dog food. To pick one recent example, some people in America thought they were voting for a 'compassionate conservative' President when they were really being sold a cabal of neo-conservative sadists bent on simultaneously saving the New American Century (whatever the hell that means outside of their fevered masturbatory fantasies) at the price of a new Pearl Harbor and killing the last of the financial regulations. We're still paying for that little failure to read the ingredients on the label with blood, dollars and whatever honor and reputation we had. What sort of justice leaves those people in the Carlyle Group and puts Brad-slea Manning in Leavenworth?

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#290 2013-08-30 08:20:48

Emmeran wrote:

This is a necessary function particularly when the military reports to civilian political authority.  What this means in a nutshell is that the orders come from the populace via democratic vote, essentially the voting public is pulling the trigger.  The citizens action or inaction decided that path that we took and determines who lives or dies.

Look to yourself.

Sure would be nice if the administration consulted anyone in Congress before deciding to commit more American lives to the fracas. I know that all seems so quaint and positively 20th century, but when did public debate about the use of armed aggression in foreign policy become a faux pa?

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#291 2016-11-09 09:26:06

We really need to figure out a solution for this situation.

Isn't there a Federal Country Club Crazy House we can dump Manning in?  This troubled soul needs a safe, quiet and controlled environment, I'm of the mindset that full release would probably be the worst thing we could do at this point.

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#292 2016-11-09 11:22:23

GooberMcNutly wrote:

I know that all seems so quaint and positively 20th century, but when did public debate about the use of armed aggression in foreign policy become a faux pa?

September 12, 2001.

Because if you aren't for personal, armed, aggressive response to sectarian violence 5000 miles away, you don't Support the Troops (R)(Tm)(C).

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#294 2017-01-18 08:18:58

It's nice to see my namesake thread lives on.

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#295 2017-01-18 10:29:01

At the same time, Harrison did not shy away from continued criticism of President Obama. “Today's news will not make good the harm done on Obama's watch,” she continued. (my emphasis)

Sometimes these assholes just don't know when to shut up and be grateful, do they?  Yeah, damn that President Obama for allowing her to be convicted under the Espionage Act, which he probably deplores.  At least she respects the office enough to say President Obama.

Also

Born Bradley Manning, Chelsea announced her gender transition the day after the verdict was handed down. “I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female,” she said in a statement.

Ok.

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#296 2017-01-18 11:07:54

Seven years is enough for being stupid.  I still pity that poor individual, what a fucked up life to have. 

I don't think Obama commuted the fines though, odds are Manning will never see a dime of profit from that attention ploy.  I see a career in dry cleaning or some such...

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#298 2017-01-19 06:08:41

I agree with Emm.  The original sentence was severe to say the least.  She probably could be moved onto Death Watch.

Last edited by Fled (2017-01-19 06:20:11)

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