square wrote:

Insurance company executive.

I'd prefer to not work for the government.

Girls volleyball coach, OB/GYN or midwifery, home for preteen mothers, dildo cozy distributor.

Hang on, I'm just getting started.

Instead of fluffer, become a regional distributor for the All New Popeil  3-Speed Portable Pocket Cocksucker with Patented ~Rotatory Tongue~ Action.

Something with the word "green" in it or open up a frozen yogurt deal for fat women. Or combine those and open an organic frozen yogurt place

tojo2000 wrote:

Yes, having more people with better insurance should be so terrible for your business...

More people insured maybe.  Better insurance?  Hardly.  Reimbursement rates will plummet under any kind of government option as well as rationing will eliminate most reimbursement.

Scotty wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

Yes, having more people with better insurance should be so terrible for your business...

More people insured maybe.  Better insurance?  Hardly.  Reimbursement rates will plummet under any kind of government option as well as rationing will eliminate most reimbursement.

Geez, grow up - haven't you ever travelled outside of the United States?

tojo2000 wrote:

You have no idea what is in this healthcare bill, do you?  Potentially 3% of people will be on the government option under this bill, those with no insurance that are uninsurable.   Even those won't get their rates tied to Medicare or anything like it, but be forced to compete directly against the private insurers.

Maybe in a few decades we might have something akin to general government healthcare, and we can look back at today as the beginning, but if you really leave the business now because you're afraid of government healthcare on account of this bill, well that's just stupid.

I'd wager that with the debates I have set up in the classes I teach part time and the direct effect this legislation will have on my career that I know a hell of a lot more about what is in these bills than you do.

I'd wager that you don't understand the industry wide changes and ramifications of a lot of the language of these bills.  The changes the industry will undergo because of mandated coverage, pre-existing condition denial eliminations along with loss of lifetime caps will implode the industry in a way that will consolidate power into the hands of very few companies.  Have you been paying attention to the "too big to fail" legislative debates?  That is squarely aimed at many industries but well within the sight of the so called "trigger option" that the Senate wants to add to the final joint bill.

Employees will become a thing of the past as more and more people are turned into independent contractors by their employers.  Tax revenue may indeed fall because of people unfamiliar with paying their own taxes along with the added burden of purchasing policies that are going to be just as expensive if not more than current ones.

Unemployment will skyrocket and the economy will implode.  Why should I wait around for that to happen?  Why not be one of the first on the bus?

Your bus awaits you Chicken Little



Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

tojo2000 wrote:

Why don't you ask those people who set out and hunkered down in their homestead in the deserts of Nevada waiting for California to drop into the ocean so they could cash in on that sweet deal on ocean-front property?

Who'll be laughing when mah surf resort becomes a smashing success?

2012 is right around the flippin' corner, and I have it on good authority I'm gonna be living next to the beach, damnit.

sofaking wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

Why don't you ask those people who set out and hunkered down in their homestead in the deserts of Nevada waiting for California to drop into the ocean so they could cash in on that sweet deal on ocean-front property?

Who'll be laughing when mah surf resort becomes a smashing success?

2012 is right around the flippin' corner, and I have it on good authority I'm gonna be living next to the beach, damnit.

Nonsense. When the cataclysmic, thundering end of the world finally arrives, Emperor Norton will return to accompany all San Franciscans to the gates of Paradise. Everyone else is totally screwed, though.

Adopt 27 kids and go on Welfare...

There was all this noise in the UK at the beginning of complete coverage... and then it went away.  (Look, there isn't even a single payer option for the US like in the UK at this point, so why the whining?  Nothing has or will really change.) 

One thing I liked about the UK is that the taxes were (for an employee) dead easy.  You never had to file; and often you got a return.  Yes, the volume of taxes was a bit higher, but until the overwhelming swamping of the system by foreigners, social services on multiple layers were very good. 

People forget that Winnie sat down with Labour for negotiations before the war got fully underway.  After 1926, the Conservatives did not want to see the country come to the brink of civil war again, or strike action during the war.  The solution was a promise of social services, and a higher taxation of the upper classes.  It worked pretty well until the UK was overwhelmed by the piss-poor immigration policy, but they had to pay the piper re: The British Empire, and all its children.

I'm against any health care reform that comes shy of single payer.

SO SAYETH THE LORD.

I’m still disappointed that Death Panels are not part of Health Care Reform.  Eventually Partner™ will not need me around all the time and I will be able to work again; the idea of supervising my local Death Panel was giving me a huge stiffy.  Telling old people they were just going to have to die, and sending abortionists to the local high school to terminate their grandchildren and great grandchildren would be a wonderful job that would give me a great deal of satisfaction!

phreddy wrote:

Tojo,
You really should back off the knee jerk liberal reaction of attacking the messenger and read the article and some of the references in it.

Fun fact: conservatives NEVER EVER EVER do this.  Ever.

phreddy wrote:

Tojo,
You really should back off the knee jerk liberal reaction of attacking the messenger and read the article and some of the references in it.

There is a whole cadre of people who have for months been saying the following:

Obama is a secret Muslim.
Obama was not born here--there's no birth certificate.
Obama is subliminally indoctrinating our children in our public schools.
Obama is tracking American citizens through the use of "cookies" on WhiteHouse.gov.
Obama pals around with terrorists.
Obama is a socialist.
Obama is going to have the government take over health care.
Obama is setting up death panels, and will send jack-booted government thugs to kill our grandparents.
Obama hates white people.
And so on.

All of the above are demonstrably false. And now you want me to believe these same assholes when they tell me what's in the health care bill? Fuck that.

Obama is subliminally indoctrinating our children in our public schools.

Governments & religions have been doing that since the concept of compulsory schools was first brought to life.  Read "Weapons of Mass Instruction" by John Taylor Gatto.

Obama is going to have the government take over health care.

Obama is setting up death panels, and will send jack-booted government thugs to kill our grandparents.

Where do I sign up?  Those fucking blue haired left signal slow ass fuckers need to DIE.

Obama hates white rich people.

I recently got to experience socialized medicine in Limey Land first hand.  They have private health care over there too.  Guess what?  It's better than what we get here while giving up 15-35% of our paychecks.  It's a lot cheaper too, because they have to compete with the government.  As long as we have both options available, it will be OK.  The shit part is paying for it.  There needs to be some seriously hard core rules put in place.  Fat fuck? Pay for it yourself.  Smoke?  Same thing.  Bare backing donut puncher?  Get ready to pay through that gaping ass of yours.  On government healthcare?  No more than 2 kids.

Yeah, I guess sometimes my inner fascist slips out.....

XregnaR wrote:

I recently got to experience socialized medicine in Limey Land first hand.  They have private health care over there too.  Guess what?  It's better than what we get here while giving up 15-35% of our paychecks.  It's a lot cheaper too, because they have to compete with the government.

That was my experience with socialized medicine in Australia lo, so many, many years ago.  Frankly, it was fucking great.

XregnaR wrote:

It's better than what we get here while giving up 15-35% of our paychecks.

You may have enjoyed the services, but were you paying the taxes?

phreddy wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

You have no idea what is in this healthcare bill, do you?

Maybe you don't know what's in the bill Tojo.  So here is an article from the Wall Street Journal spelling it out.  I recommend you read it before you tout this piece of shit idea.  I think Scotty should become a community healthcare worker.  No certification required.  Just be able to tell people not to smoke or drink and be able to do it in a culturally correct manner. (see Sec 300 v below).

Wall Street Journal wrote:

Printed on 11/7 before the Democrats voted for this horrible thing.

By BETSY MCCAUGHEY
The health bill that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is bringing to a vote (H.R. 3962) is 1,990 pages. Here are some of the details you need to know.
What the government will require you to do:
• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.
• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.

You mean my employer won't be able to buy me some gigantic deductible, low coverage insurance that won't really help with my bills but will keep me from qualifying for anything else?  Oh, the humanity.

crazy lady wrote:

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

You mean people will have to pay around 15% less under the new plan?  Those bastards!

pigface wrote:

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

Here's a classic example of a LIE.  A "qualified plan" is defined as the minimum level that people are allowed to provide with their insurance.  It's a way to keep insurance companies and self-insured employers from trying to get away with giving really shitty low-coverage insurance so they can check of the "yes, I provided insurance for my employees" box.

phreddy's girlfriend wrote:

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.
• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.
Eviscerating Medicare:
In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.
• Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home."
The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to "disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis."
A December 2008 Congressional Budget Office report noted that "medical homes" were likely to resemble the unpopular gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control was a priority.

We have unpopular gatekeepers of 20 minutes ago right now.  They suck.  Really bad.  also, show me the part where it says the government will dictate treatment decisions and that people will have to have a nurse practitioner.  This is the same discredited bullshit she's been paid the peddle since the debate started.  This entire section is about establishing a feasibility study about Medical Home systems.  Again, she and you are full of shit.

ugly stick wrote:

• Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.

Again, this section allows physician's assistants to work in hospice.  There's no requirement here.  Phreddy, you didn't look up any of these sections yourself, did you?

buttface wrote:

• Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.
• Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.

Medicare advantage != Medicare.  Medicare advantage is a way of providing government subsidies to private insurers.  Given the nature of the new subsidies in this bill, a reduction in subsidies through Medicare Advantage is to be expected.

smegma wrote:

• Sec. 1402 (p. 756) says that the results of comparative effectiveness research conducted by the government will be delivered to doctors electronically to guide their use of "medical items and services."

Oh, no, everybody panic!

bride of chucky wrote:

Questionable Priorities:
While the bill will slash Medicare funding, it will also direct billions of dollars to numerous inner-city social work and diversity programs with vague standards of accountability.
• Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community "entities" with no required qualifications except having "documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers" to "educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities" aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity. "Each community health worker program receiving funds under the grant will provide services in the cultural context most appropriate for the individual served by the program."
These programs will "enhance the capacity of individuals to utilize health services and health related social services under Federal, State and local programs by assisting individuals in establishing eligibility . . . and in receiving services and other benefits" including transportation and translation services.
• Sec. 222 (p. 617) provides reimbursement for culturally and linguistically appropriate services. This program will train health-care workers to inform Medicare beneficiaries of their "right" to have an interpreter at all times and with no co-pays for language services.
• Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should "give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population." And secondary-school grants should go to schools "graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities."
• Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.
For the text of the bill with page numbers, see www.defendyourhealthcare.us.
—Ms. McCaughey is chairman of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths and a former Lt. Governor of New York state.

So, in summary, Phreddy, you're a moron.

tojo2000 wrote:

We have unpopular gatekeepers of 20 minutes ago right now.  They suck.  Really bad.  also, show me the part where it says the government will dictate treatment decisions and that people will have to have a nurse practitioner.  This is the same discredited bullshit she's been paid the peddle since the debate started.  This entire section is about establishing a feasibility study about Medical Home systems.  Again, she and you are full of shit.

It is also one of the leading ideas with respect to how to reduce health care costs which are driven up by the prevailing fee-for-service approach.

George Orr wrote:

XregnaR wrote:

I recently got to experience socialized medicine in Limey Land first hand.  They have private health care over there too.  Guess what?  It's better than what we get here while giving up 15-35% of our paychecks.  It's a lot cheaper too, because they have to compete with the government.

That was my experience with socialized medicine in Australia lo, so many, many years ago.  Frankly, it was fucking great.

Socialized medicine in Japan saved my life, twice. Total of two months in the National Cardiovascular Center: MRIs, CAT scans, xrays, sonograms out the yingyang, plus all the trimmings, AND two or three vials of drugs that make gold seem as valuable as cat piss, and all for 3000 bucks out of pocket.

Suck on it, Birther scum.....

Last edited by Tall Paul (2009-11-11 20:00:24)