#1 2010-05-14 22:16:42
It's so unfair
Jennifer is a Mexican citizen, but she wants to be a US citizen. However Jennifer doesn't want to follow the laws; she could have a Mexican drivers license which is recognized here, instead she wants to cut ahead of the hundreds of thousands around the world waiting for their visa and jump to the head of the line.
It's her right after all....
Last edited by Taint (2010-05-16 04:15:35)
Offline
#2 2010-05-15 00:06:06
Say she was born in Mexico when she was 2, and brought here shortly thereafter. What do you want her to do? Realize she's illegal around the age of 18 and just move back to Mexico? To stay with...? and pursue a career in...?
Offline
#3 2010-05-15 02:15:50
ah297900 wrote:
Say she was born in Mexico when she was 2, and brought here shortly thereafter. What do you want her to do? Realize she's illegal around the age of 18 and just move back to Mexico? To stay with...? and pursue a career in...?
Ok, she was born in Mexico when she was 2.
Offline
#4 2010-05-15 05:43:25
This is Emm's cause, the only thing he rides the crazy train about. My advice is to just poke a stick at his nest once in a while, do a quick little pat-down-for-papers, and then let him go on his way.
Offline
#5 2010-05-15 10:03:37
ah297900 wrote:
Say she was born in Mexico when she was 2, and brought here shortly thereafter. What do you want her to do? Realize she's illegal around the age of 18 and just move back to Mexico? To stay with...? and pursue a career in...?
I would think everyone would realize at this point that we cannot now, nor have we ever been able to, afford all of the sweet niceties. We are broke and stuck in debt for a very long time.
She is a Mexican citizen, they have good universities in Mexico; good job opportunities also for a motivated and educated person. Yes they have problems but they need to address those problems instead of running here.
And yes we are quite sure she didn't pay the appropriate tuition for a foreign national.
But the fact remains that she is a Foreign National.
Offline
#6 2010-05-15 10:05:33
Fled wrote:
This is Emm's cause, the only thing he rides the crazy train about. My advice is to just poke a stick at his nest once in a while, do a quick little pat-down-for-papers, and then let him go on his way.
True, I've got a hard-on about this; doesn't help that 90% of my staff are legal immigrants who have family still waiting in line back home. Cutting in line has always been a pet peeve of mine.
Offline
#7 2010-05-15 11:42:02
Emm - I don't really think you're crazy. Maybe just a little demented.
Offline
#8 2010-05-15 14:22:34
Emmeran wrote:
ah297900 wrote:
Say she was born in Mexico when she was 2, and brought here shortly thereafter. What do you want her to do? Realize she's illegal around the age of 18 and just move back to Mexico? To stay with...? and pursue a career in...?
I would think everyone would realize at this point that we cannot now, nor have we ever been able to, afford all of the sweet niceties. We are broke and stuck in debt for a very long time.
What? I can buy the "it's not fair argument, but neither the comparison of illegal immigrants to luxury items or the implication that they have a significant impact on our debt make any sense.
Offline
#9 2010-05-15 14:43:53
tojo2000 wrote:
or the implication that they have a significant impact on our debt make any sense.
Try going to the emergency room in SoCal, it's all individuals without documents and all using Medicare.
My teenagers can't get a job, all the normal High School jobs are take by Foreign Nationals.
Go to Superior Grocery - witness the Foreign Nationals using WIC to buy food.
70,000+ Foreign Nationals in CA state and county prisons - at $35k per year.
They cost far more than they contribute - particularly since they send so much back home every year.
Offline
#10 2010-05-15 16:14:26
Emmeran wrote:
tojo2000 wrote:
or the implication that they have a significant impact on our debt make any sense.
Try going to the emergency room in SoCal, it's all individuals without documents and all using Medicare.
My teenagers can't get a job, all the normal High School jobs are take by Foreign Nationals.
Go to Superior Grocery - witness the Foreign Nationals using WIC to buy food.
70,000+ Foreign Nationals in CA state and county prisons - at $35k per year.
They cost far more than they contribute - particularly since they send so much back home every year.
That's your state's fault. Texas does not have these problems, even though we have an assload of illegals here. Just change your fucking state's idiot laws.
Offline
#11 2010-05-15 16:27:22
Em... be careful!
Offline
#12 2010-05-15 17:01:28
"Introducing Don Johnson"
"We didn't cross the border--the border crossed us!"
ROBERT deFUCKINGNIRO
*pees pants*
I wish Rodriguez's movies were one-quarter as good as his trailers...
Offline
#13 2010-05-15 18:25:39
George Orr wrote:
"Introducing Don Johnson"
"We didn't cross the border--the border crossed us!"
ROBERT deFUCKINGNIRO
*pees pants*
I wish Rodriguez's movies were one-quarter as good as his trailers...
With Steven Seagal, it can't live up to 1/2 of 1% of the trailer. I can't think of a movie he's in that's worth watching. When I see him on a television screen I tackle people and break fingers to get the remote, so I can change the channel. Maybe that's why he doesn't speak in the trailer.
Offline
#14 2010-05-15 19:32:31
The only fair approach to the amnesty answer is to open the borders but then what do we do with the:
200 million Chinese
100 million Indians
50 million Indonesians
and
500 million European/Africans/generic Asians and S. Americans
: that show up?
We can't absorb a billion people, but in theory that is what is being proposed.
Last edited by Emmeran (2010-05-15 19:32:56)
Offline
#15 2010-05-15 23:06:07
Emmeran wrote:
The only fair approach to the amnesty answer is to open the borders but then what do we do with the:
200 million Chinese
100 million Indians
50 million Indonesians
and
500 million European/Africans/generic Asians and S. Americans
: that show up?
We can't absorb a billion people, but in theory that is what is being proposed.
This smells a tad bit like a straw man. Who has proposed this?
Offline
#16 2010-05-16 02:20:08
tojo2000 wrote:
This smells a tad bit like a straw man. Who has proposed this?
The same ones who told us the last amnesty would fix the problem, what actually happened was the number doubled; we grant amnesty again and the number will double again - why wouldn't it? Stop thinking with your heart and start thinking with your head - you cannot save everyone in this world, it's just not possible.
Nothing against them and I don't envy their lot in life; but I have mine to look after and that must come first.
Offline
#17 2010-05-16 02:31:59
Emmeran wrote:
tojo2000 wrote:
This smells a tad bit like a straw man. Who has proposed this?
The same ones who told us the last amnesty would fix the problem, what actually happened was the number doubled; we grant amnesty again and the number will double again - why wouldn't it? Stop thinking with your heart and start thinking with your head - you cannot save everyone in this world, it's just not possible.
Nothing against them and I don't envy their lot in life; but I have mine to look after and that must come first.
I'm not so sure it's your head you're thinking with. No one with any authority has advocated an open amnesty like Reagan's, and your arguments have been full of unsubstantiated bullshit based off of a stereotype you have in your head. Your portrayal of illegal immigrants as using up entitlement and welfare programs is just ridiculous. The reason why they seem to congregate in the emergency rooms is because they mostly don't have access to programs like Medicare. In fact, the majority of them pay taxes that go to programs that the majority of them will never be able to take advantage of, and even when they are entitled to use them, most are too scared to take advantage of anything coming from the government.
You quite simply have no idea what you're talking about. You obviously have had no real exposure to what life is like for an illegal immigrant. And yes, I believe we need real reform, starting with deciding what to do with people like Jennifer who have lived much or most of their lives here and then cracking down on employers, because it's our nation and state's policies that have facilitated the influx of illegal immigrants. We can pay lip service to the idea that they're breaking the law by coming here, but the jobs they are here for could very easily have been cut off long ago. Businesses like them, though; they don't report accidents or mistreatments, and you can pay them lower wages and basically treat them in ways that no American would stand for.
Offline
#18 2010-05-16 04:10:32
Emmeran wrote:
The same ones who told us the last amnesty would fix the problem, what actually happened was the number doubled; we grant amnesty again and the number will double again - why wouldn't it? Stop thinking with your heart and start thinking with your head - you cannot save everyone in this world, it's just not possible.
Who is proposing an open amnesty? Where do you get this? The way you address it makes it seem like you have open borders in mind. If what you are saying is that any and all forms of amnesty will encourage illegal immigration, then you raise a fair issue, although I would prefer to work on a multi-faceted policy that first provides strong disincentives to illegal immigration, which would entail strong employer sanctions as well as simplified deportation procedures. The second leg would be to deal with people who are already here, allowing some form of legal status to the previously undocumented who do not have criminal records, are productive, and their minor children. This, of course, is the more complicated problem.
Emmeran wrote:
Nothing against them and I don't envy their lot in life; but I have mine to look after and that must come first.
It is admirable that you look after your own first, whoever falls within your circle, but that does not dictate how you deal with those who fall outside of it. How you deal with the latter is a separate choice you make.
Offline
#19 2010-05-16 13:46:51
tojo2000 wrote:
You quite simply have no idea what you're talking about. You obviously have had no real exposure to what life is like for an illegal immigrant.
First of all, don't climb your ivory tower and pretend you understand my life; secondly it's a problem of their own making - it's illegal to enter the United States with out the proper visa. What part of that don't you understand? Without the proper visa they are not immigrants they are foreign nationals who are trespassing. They have no legal standing as they have no right to be here.
You also seem to be eager to ignore the long term implications of sucking away the most ambitious and hardest working from these developing countries; doing so dooms those societies to an endless cycle of poverty.
tojo2000 wrote:
And yes, I believe we need real reform, starting with deciding what to do with people like Jennifer who have lived much or most of their lives here and then cracking down on employers, because it's our nation and state's policies that have facilitated the influx of illegal immigrants. We can pay lip service to the idea that they're breaking the law by coming here, but the jobs they are here for could very easily have been cut off long ago. Businesses like them, though; they don't report accidents or mistreatments, and you can pay them lower wages and basically treat them in ways that no American would stand for.
We don't need reform, we need enforcement - which is why the AZ law is being considered by so many states; the Fed refused to enforce any portion of the law for various political reasons. Neither Democrat or Republican wants to enforce those laws but they know that attempting to repeal them is political suicide. "Reform" is their excuse to ignore the problem and too many people have taken that bait - we need to force current laws to be enforced and add a valid punishment for counties and cities that adopt policies that run contrary current State and Federal laws.
Current law does punish employers, however the law is enforced only when politically expedient. The fun fact about the AZ law is that the same laws currently exist in almost every other state including California - enforcement is just not there.
The only thing "Reform" means is "path to citizenship". Well there is a path to citizenship, you apply at the US Embassy in your home country and are selected based on qualifications.
That path is still open to Jennifer.
Offline
#20 2010-05-16 13:51:22
Fled wrote:
I would prefer to work on a multi-faceted policy that first provides strong disincentives to illegal immigration, which would entail strong employer sanctions as well as simplified deportation procedures. The second leg would be to deal with people who are already here, allowing some form of legal status to the previously undocumented who do not have criminal records, are productive, and their minor children. This, of course, is the more complicated problem.
The question is why?
What do we gain by granting them any form of legal status? (aside from a warm fuzzy feeling)
And is what we gain worth the costs to us, is it even worth the divisiveness?
Offline
#21 2010-05-16 13:55:31
tojo2000 wrote:
The reason why they seem to congregate in the emergency rooms is because they mostly don't have access to programs like Medicare.
If they show up at the emergency room they must be treated, the costs go back to the state (usually booked into the medicaid accounts).
tojo2000 wrote:
In fact, the majority of them pay taxes that go to programs that the majority of them will never be able to take advantage of, and even when they are entitled to use them, most are too scared to take advantage of anything coming from the government.
That's a myth, just go down to Superior Grocery and stand at the check-outs.
Offline
#22 2010-05-16 14:15:38
Emmeran wrote:
and pretend you understand my life
Hell, I don't understand your life; you being a Jarhead and all.
Eat the apple ...
Offline
#23 2010-05-16 21:15:22
What I can't understand is that Canada is waayyy nicer to sponge off of that the USA. Once they sneak into the US, why don't they just keep going and sneak into Canada? They have free heath care, a very progressive government and lots of friendly people, right?
Offline
#24 2010-05-16 21:49:33
They do.
Offline
#25 2010-05-16 22:43:59
Dmtdust wrote:
They do.
Unfortunately the Foreign National problem afflicts every successful nation around the world; we don't even have the worst of it.
Offline
#26 2010-05-16 23:23:52
The UK is swamped, poor frickin' Italy, Spain, and Greece. You don't know the half of it.
Offline
#27 2010-05-16 23:26:51
Dmtdust wrote:
The UK is swamped, poor frickin' Italy, Spain, and Greece. You don't know the half of it.
Actually I do - has kind of inspired my attitude here. Germany even has been flooded; not good.
Offline
#28 2010-05-16 23:30:29
Oh the Turks are always a bit of fun, but fuck those Poles and Hungarians, really.
Offline
#29 2010-05-17 21:18:59
Gladys is sad also
This trespassing Foreign National dreams of a US Grant or Loan to pay her way through Berkely.
I think could support the DREAM program if it was changed to a 4 year degree and didn't consume any tax payer dollars or tax payer backed loans and of course had strict expulsion terms. But on the other hand, perhaps we should grant her the money on the condition she return to her homeland once she has achieved her degree; regardless of any mitigating factors (such as marriage).
She sounds just like the kind of citizen Mexico needs back...
(Edit: Wow, the comments... )
Last edited by Emmeran (2010-05-17 21:38:25)
Offline
#30 2010-05-18 10:27:09
Dmtdust wrote:
The UK is swamped, poor frickin' Italy, Spain, and Greece. You don't know the half of it.
So England is kind of like Spain. Except in Spain it's the Costa del Sol that's been invaded by the Brits and Germans. Where's a nice Spaniard to take a swim in his own country without having to trip over all of these invading uber-white people? France, Turkey, Greece and Italy, too, and the problem only gets worse in the summer time.
Offline
#32 2010-05-18 22:10:28
GooberMcNutly wrote:
Dmtdust wrote:
The UK is swamped, poor frickin' Italy, Spain, and Greece. You don't know the half of it.
So England is kind of like Spain. Except in Spain it's the Costa del Sol that's been invaded by the Brits and Germans. Where's a nice Spaniard to take a swim in his own country without having to trip over all of these invading uber-white people? France, Turkey, Greece and Italy, too, and the problem only gets worse in the summer time.
Well, there is that, but I am talking about Fnord's Nightmares: Africans & Arabs!...
Offline
#33 2010-05-18 22:43:56
Then there is France, submerged in Algerians....
Offline
#34 2010-05-19 05:04:23
Now that all that is settled, can we agree that the planet is fucking crowded, and people will chase resources like bacteria will hopping from host to host? Scarcity (defined broadly) is the engine of immigration. There are others, but need is the driver. We will use law, walls, resentment and retrenchment to resist the tide, but as long as we have what they don't, the pressure is on.
Offline
#35 2010-05-19 11:04:11
It's interesting to watch this progress:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 02175.html
and from right down the road: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-new … ck_check=1
Offline
#36 2010-05-19 12:22:20
What are we supposed to do iwhile the ignorant breeders of the world keep pumping out sprogs? The birth rate for native-born Americans is actually below the level of sustainability, yet our population keeps growing. Illegal immigration will never stop until we get serious about making it stop.
On a side note, Arizona fights back against LA's threat of a boycott.
Last edited by phreddy (2010-05-19 12:25:39)
Offline
#37 2010-05-19 12:52:38
phreddy wrote:
On a side note, Arizona fights back against LA's threat of a boycott.
Mayor Villaraigosa is a sniveling fuckwit
Offline
#38 2010-05-19 16:28:48
I am guessing that the AZ Governor would make all of this commotion go away for a few billion more in confiscated "drug" money.
Offline
#40 2010-05-22 06:16:57
Dmtdust wrote:
But Wait! There's More!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100521/ … ews_pl2192
Whodathunk? The miracle of compounding applies to idiocy!
Offline
#41 2010-05-22 11:59:32
Dmtdust wrote:
But Wait! There's More!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100521/ … ews_pl2192
Yeah, it's time to be done with that also; it's a great principle but has been abused to the point that we should seriously consider falling in line with the rest of the world on this one.
Offline
#42 2010-05-22 12:03:06
Defeat in sight the illegal aliens begin to splinter. It's every foreign national for himself now.
(What's with the Mexican Flags when you are demanding American citizenship)
Silly twink, you just bought yourself a ticket on the deportation plane of death
Last edited by Emmeran (2010-05-22 12:06:39)
Offline
#43 2010-05-22 12:43:27
Emmeran wrote:
Dmtdust wrote:
But Wait! There's More!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100521/ … ews_pl2192Yeah, it's time to be done with that also; it's a great principle but has been abused to the point that we should seriously consider falling in line with the rest of the world on this one.
Your going to have to amend the Constitution to get that one done. That is why the proposal for an Arizona state law is retarded.
Offline
#44 2010-05-22 18:51:07
Fled wrote:
Emmeran wrote:
Dmtdust wrote:
But Wait! There's More!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100521/ … ews_pl2192Yeah, it's time to be done with that also; it's a great principle but has been abused to the point that we should seriously consider falling in line with the rest of the world on this one.
Your going to have to amend the Constitution to get that one done. That is why the proposal for an Arizona state law is retarded.
You caught me, I didn't realize it was a state law proposal. Yup, that's beyond stupid.
the absurdity level is absurd.
Offline
#45 2010-05-22 22:24:05
It's kinda strange to no longer be living in the most fucktarded state in the Union (after South Carolina).
Um...Hi, pALEPHx! *waves*
Last edited by George Orr (2010-05-22 22:24:42)
Offline
#46 2010-05-23 03:14:50
George Orr wrote:
It's kinda strange to no longer be living in the most fucktarded state in the Union (after South Carolina).
Um...Hi, pALEPHx! *waves*
Nah, you still do. AZ is showing more common sense than the rest combiined.
To add to the absurdity pile - the liberals in Michigan are claiming that the illegal immigrants are actually improving the job situation there....... of course the conservatives there are applauding the cheap labor as proof that the free market works.
Offline
#47 2010-05-23 06:43:01
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
Offline
#49 2010-05-25 19:23:37
Dmtdust wrote:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/weird/Miami-Company-Creates-Gringo-Masks-for-Arizona-Illegals-94782694.html
I saw this. They don't mention it in the story, but both masks are of Fox News reporters.
Offline
#50 2010-05-25 19:28:08
Blond Aryan News? (BAN)
Offline
