It's not their fault.  They only begged for it.

We spoke to an eyewitness, Steven Rayle, who was on the scene at the time of the shooting and helped to hold the suspect down while waiting for police.

She was one of the "targets" from Sarah Palin's website:



Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

MSG Tripps wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

She's dead.

Jumping to conclusions?  1505 EST

I went to a couple of sites that said she was dead, they have since pulled it.  Don't blame the messenger.

A disappointingly incoherent nutjob.

Last edited by fortinbras (2011-01-08 16:49:48)

At least America's youth seem to be taking an interest in politics again.  Hell when I was a kid neither I nor any of my friends knew who any of our representatives were.

A supposed photo of him......

Last edited by Dirckman (2011-01-08 20:26:56)

I kind of doubt he's a tea partier, I'm thinking this is just one really confused boy. On some tokens he seems radically left listing leftist ideals and the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books, on others he seems libertarian with his stance on commodity money, then rambles on about the second amendment and the constitution like a good conservative.

Dirckman wrote:

I kind of doubt he's a tea partier, I'm thinking this is just one really confused boy. On some tokens he seems radically left listing leftist ideals and the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books, on others he seems libertarian with his stance on commodity money, then rambles on about the second amendment and the constitution like a good conservative.

You've just described almost every tea partier I've ever talked with, although they're never self-aware enough to realize which parts of their beliefs are what they decry as socialist.

tojo2000 wrote:

fortinbras wrote:

A fan of The Communist Manifesto, what a true ultra right wing Tea Party nutjob

He also lists Mein Kampf.  You are either intentionally leaving information out, or you're making the classic Tea Party mistake of not knowing the difference between Nazis and Communists.

Pot smoking loner who may not have acted alone.  So now we have the suspects of Tea Party afflilation or Cartel hit...time to play jump to conclusions anyone?

tojo2000 wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

I kind of doubt he's a tea partier, I'm thinking this is just one really confused boy. On some tokens he seems radically left listing leftist ideals and the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books, on others he seems libertarian with his stance on commodity money, then rambles on about the second amendment and the constitution like a good conservative.

You've just described almost every tea partier I've ever talked with, although they're never self-aware enough to realize which parts of their beliefs are what they decry as socialist.

I agree with you that the tea partiers don't have a clue as to what is socialist or not.  The phrase "Don't mess with my medicare" comes to mind.  That being said I can't think of any tea partier that would list a book called the Communist Manifesto on their list of favorites regardless of whether they knew what it was or not.  Although I'm sure more than a handful of them would list Mein Kampf.  I'm thinking this is nothing more than a confused dickhead that considered himself a political philosopher and radicalized himself from all angles.

Last edited by Dirckman (2011-01-08 21:05:17)

Political hay to be made over a complete nutjob who isn't competent to speak even for himself let alone teabaggers,  communists,  or anybody else.  Film at eleven.

I still blame the conservatives for elevating Palin to the national stage. Palin and her supporters anthem should be Yankovic's "Dare to be Stupid".

Last edited by sigmoid freud (2011-01-08 22:35:43)

whosasailorthen wrote:

I blame BOTH parties, and the press, for their polarizing, 'us against them' attitudes and practices.  If folks acted in the best interests of the PEOPLE, and cooperated to find fair, balanced and equitable solutions to our problems, then they'd not be in this situation in the first place.  But by back-biting, bickering and blowharding they have caused the deep divisions in our country, and now they reap what they sowed.

While the democrats can be blamed for a whole host of stupid things, encouraging violence against those who don't share the same political views is not one of them.  The rathcheting up of the hateful rhetoric rests squarely on the shoulders of the right who tell people with small brains that Obama is trying to ruin the country, and that they must take it back.  Sarah Palin's crosshairs map was not just stupidity...it was deliberate, and they will continue to spin and say this was a random act, etc., but the damage has already been done.

It's a vast right wing conspiracy. 


I agree with whosasailorthen.

tojo2000 wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

Oh, yeah, like the left didn't say Bush was "trying to ruin the country, and that they must take it back"?

Yeah.

Are you really saying that there was the same level of violent rhetoric and invocations of violent revolt against the government as a constant drone not just by marginal figures but by mainstream political figures and elected officials?

Yes. 

Both sides have done EXACTLY the same thing.  There's nobody here without blood on their hands.

tojo2000 wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

Oh, yeah, like the left didn't say Bush was "trying to ruin the country, and that they must take it back"?

Yeah.

Are you really saying that there was the same level of violent rhetoric and invocations of violent revolt against the government as a constant drone not just by marginal figures but by mainstream political figures and elected officials?

June 1, 2006

NEW YORK -- New York State Comptroller Alan Hevesi publicly apologized Thursday for a "beyond dumb" remark about "putting a bullet between the president's eyes."

Hevesi hastily called a press conference hours after putting his foot in his mouth during a speech at the Queens College commencement.

The comptroller said he was trying to convey the strength and courage of U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York...

Sounds like violent rhetoric from a mainstream political figure and elected official to me. 

And you know as well as I that this is NOT the only example. 

BOTH sides have done it.

Last edited by whosasailorthen (2011-01-08 23:49:34)

whosasailorthen wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

Oh, yeah, like the left didn't say Bush was "trying to ruin the country, and that they must take it back"?

Yeah.

Are you really saying that there was the same level of violent rhetoric and invocations of violent revolt against the government as a constant drone not just by marginal figures but by mainstream political figures and elected officials?

Yes. 

Both sides have done EXACTLY the same thing.  There's nobody here without blood on their hands.

I'm not a fan of the left either, but I do not recall any instance where they talked about taking back the country from Bush WITH VIOLENCE.  They had a strong "get out the vote" movement, not a "second amendment solution" movement.  They talked about impeaching Bush and charging Cheney with war crimes.  They didn't not talk about killing anyone.  To say that the left and right are equally to blame for the hateful rhetoric is not accurate.  The left wants to take your guns away, not come strapped and loaded to a political rally.  And it sounds like the right will get a pass on this one because people like you are all too eager to show your disdain for both parties by saying the blame should be shared equally.

AladdinSane wrote:

I wonder how the AM talk-show hosts are gonna spin it on Monday morning.

They will blame the victim(s).  They will say she was asking for it somehow.

I know that sounds incredibly cynical and cruel, and I'm not sure exactly how they'll spin it around to that; but I'd bet my next paycheck that is what the talk-radio/FOX News theme is going to be.

headkicker_girl wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

tojo2000 wrote:

Are you really saying that there was the same level of violent rhetoric and invocations of violent revolt against the government as a constant drone not just by marginal figures but by mainstream political figures and elected officials?

Yes. 

Both sides have done EXACTLY the same thing.  There's nobody here without blood on their hands.

I'm not a fan of the left either, but I do not recall any instance where they talked about taking back the country from Bush WITH VIOLENCE.  They had a strong "get out the vote" movement, not a "second amendment solution" movement.  They talked about impeaching Bush and charging Cheney with war crimes.  They didn't not talk about killing anyone.  To say that the left and right are equally to blame for the hateful rhetoric is not accurate.  The left wants to take your guns away, not come strapped and loaded to a political rally.  And it sounds like the right will get a pass on this one because people like you are all too eager to show your disdain for both parties by saying the blame should be shared equally.

I have to agree with whosasailorthen...  The entire range of the political spectrum is designed to do nothing more than turn people against one another.  Things a person wouldn't dream of doing to their neighbor or even a random person they meet on the street somehow seem perfectly okay if done through political means.  In a democracy people rush to the ballot boxes to either impose some pet project of theirs onto everyone else or at the very least they vote in self-defense to keep others from imposing their pet projects onto them.  It's far too easy for people to get wrapped up in this whole mess with politicians making promises and the media hyping it up.  I used to get into it myself until I saw it for what it was and quit watching the news and quit rooting for any of these politicians over another.  Fuck them, they're worse than cancer no matter where they land on the political spectrum.

tojo2000 wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

I have to agree with whosasailorthen...  The entire range of the political spectrum is designed to do nothing more than turn people against one another.  Things a person wouldn't dream of doing to their neighbor or even a random person they meet on the street somehow seem perfectly okay if done through political means.  In a democracy people rush to the ballot boxes to either impose some pet project of theirs onto everyone else or at the very least they vote in self-defense to keep others from imposing their pet projects onto them.  It's far too easy for people to get wrapped up in this whole mess with politicians making promises and the media hyping it up.  I used to get into it myself until I saw it for what it was and quit watching the news and quit rooting for any of these politicians over another.  Fuck them, they're worse than cancer no matter where they land on the political spectrum.

...and I can't disagree with both of you more.  At least for the last couple of decades that I've been following politics, the constant invocation of violent revolt and assassination as the constant metaphor for political change is unprecedented, not for the lunatic fringe, but for the mainstream elected officials, coupled with a higher-than-normal incidence of racism, vandalism, and other overtly violent acts, even though most of them don't involve murder.  The lunatic fringe has been allowed to take center stage and given the microphone because of the Republican party's cowardly attempt to appear non-incumbent so the Tea Party doesn't turn on them.

Yes, sometimes people do it on both sides, and it's equally disgusting, but no, I call bullshit; there is one side that has definitely turned it up to 11, and it's this exact false equivalence that lets it happen.

I think you missed my point.  Government itself is a monopoly on violence and Barack Obama agrees with me:

I will admit that the left does a far better job with their PR campaign, but when you break it down, they are no different with their methods than the right.  Every law, every social program and all of their funding comes with the threat of force.  There really are only slight differences between the left and right in America and it's boiled down to which group can get their hands on the guns of government.  The right may be a little more passionate with their rhetoric, but regardless of the tone of the highwayman, you're still robbed of your money and your freedom.

whosasailorthen wrote:

It's a very simple matter of capitalism. 

The parties pick fight with each other, however minor or major.

The press then makes loads of money turning the whole thing into a battle royal, not unlike a staged cage match from The World Wrestling Federation. 

The politicians make loads of money because the party zealots on both sides will send in their hard-earned cash to support their side of the game, for fear of the other party "trying to ruin the country" and as such, "they must take it back".

The pundits make loads of money by fanning the flames.

The only people that lose are you and I, my friends.  And our children, of course.

I have to blame the press more than anyone.  If it wasn't for them politicians would be nothing more than just some far away lunatics spouting hate, empty promises and threats.  The press have become these people's propaganda machine legitimizing them just like the priestly class did for kings in the past.  The press doesn't do any real investigative journalism, all they do is rattle off talking points created by political think tanks.  They also have to create exaggerated crisis after crisis to keep their viewers on the edge of their seats.  I have tried my own campaign to educate people around me that they need to quit watching the news because it's crap.  The only response I get in return is that the news is important because it "keeps people informed".  How we've come to the conclusion that the divisive diarrhea these people spout out on the airways is somehow educational is beyond me.  Fuck them, they've been the machinery behind nearly every modern war, economy destroying legislation and rights depriving movement.

Right, someone is going to have to post some examples of Democrats in or out of office who call for violent overthrow of the government, or who mark political enemies for violence, or who incite murder. Anyone not posting valid examples is going onto The List.

http://biggovernment.com/eyeblasttv/201 … -on-msnbc/