Fled wrote:

This discussion is indicative of the problem.  Everybody should just get some perspective, try to avoid over-the-top incendiary ranting, and play nicer.  The finger-pointing is just going to give the other side the opportunity to cut your finger off.

The guy is a nut-job, and he may have been egged on by careless rhetoric.  The best thing would be to reject politicians, commentators, and others who don't control their vitriol.

My problem is that even before any probable cause of why the guy shot up a Safeway was mentioned, entire groups of news organizations already pointed their finger at the tea party as the prime culprits.  Its amazing how much hatred of the tea party has made people make up their minds about what happened rather than listen to evidence first like rational people.  The guy was a pot head too...its well known that pot causes psychosis...but it would be idiotic to call for the crack down of pot across the nation given that millions of people use it and the percentages of real problems from it are relatively small in size and scale.

ah297900 wrote:

Forty, your points are well taken, although I still think the right is a little better at the vitriol. At least they're more institutionalized about it. Regardless of how this guy got inspired, I think we'd both agree that a decent human being would look at this and say, "better safe than sorry--time to take it down a few pegs." Those who don't start easing back are those who we know are not decent human beings. You with me?

This article has the best reply I can give you since its pretty dead on with what I think of the issue...and I'm too tired to coherently type my own.  That being said I'm a little scared to be in agreement with Paul Joseph Watson.  BTW: If taking it down a few pegs means not posting something like this:



I do see the concern for such a message that the picture can deliver to people.  So yes, some people go overboard, but I see this being exploited in the worst possible was as an outcome.

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

choad wrote:

ah297900 wrote:

Those who don't start easing back are those who we know are not decent human beings. You with me?

We'll get the same handwringing sermons after the next high profile flameout, swelling the ranks of deluded attention whores everywhere and delighting bureaucrats eager for any excuse to tighten the screws of social control. Meh.

Exactly, "the people" are going to be the ones that suffer the most from this cluster fuck of a situation no matter what happens.  You can guarantee the government will use it as an excuse to take more rights away and/or seize more power in some way, shape, or form in the guise of "protecting" us.

To everything - spin, spin, spin
There is a crisis - spin, spin, spin
And a time for every conspiracy under heaven

I love how we always play rush to judgment, but now all of a sudden we're supposed to wait until all the facts come in.  Hypocrites (especially you forti who as posted rush to jugment numerous times).

And the tea party sucks ass for many reasons that has nothing to do with this event.

fortinbras wrote:

BTW: If taking it down a few pegs means not posting something like this:

https://cruelery.com/uploads/426_targets.jpg

I do see the concern for such a message that the picture can deliver to people.  So yes, some people go overboard, but I see this being exploited in the worst possible was as an outcome.

Pointing out inflammatory speech isn't in itself inflammatory. If that were the case, the Southern Poverty Law Center would be as much a hate group as the groups that they track.

You're setting up a system where any complaint can be considered illegitimate--a problem of the person raising the issue rather than of the issue itself. The person taking offense and the person doing the offending are not moral equivalents.

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs

Pitchforks? Get real! What Forti posted was not at all like painting targets on real people.
We were all quick to assign blame to the Palinistas because ever since she and her ilk started talking up reloading and the second amendment, we've been waiting for some nutcase to take it literally. And I don't dismiss the shooter's humanity, but I do blame the ones who incited him.

From the Independent in the UK: 

But Gabrielle Giffords made great sense when, in March 2010, she discussed the Palin map with a TV interviewer, saying: "Sarah Palin has the cross-hairs of a gunsight over our district – and when people do that, they've got to realise there are consequences to that action." In the martial atmosphere of an election year (and in a country where four sitting presidents have been assassinated, and many more have survived serious attempts on their lives), extravagant figures of speech can all too easily become literal, and rhetorical guns turn into real ones.

headkicker_girl wrote:

Tall Paul wrote:

Pitchforks? Get real! What Forti posted was not at all like painting targets on real people.
We were all quick to assign blame to the Palinistas because ever since she and her ilk started talking up reloading and the second amendment, we've been waiting for some nutcase to take it literally. And I don't dismiss the shooter's humanity, but I do blame the ones who incited him.

I know.  Forti usually isn't worth responding to.  I watched the videos, started writing a lengthy response about how they are not remotely analogous, then said, "fuck it."

Its obviously due to the astronauts...Astronauts are bad news I tell ya. Drivin' around at all hours of the night in their space-buggies, blasting that theme song from 2001: Space Odyssey. Hell, just last Fall an astronaut moved into our town, and simultaneously all the leaves starting falling off all our trees.

fortinbras wrote:

fortinbras wrote:

headkicker_girl wrote:

I know.  Forti usually isn't worth responding to.  I watched the videos, started writing a lengthy response about how they are not remotely analogous, then said, "fuck it."

Its obviously due to the astronauts...Astronauts are bad news I tell ya. Drivin' around at all hours of the night in their space-buggies, blasting that theme song from 2001: Space Odyssey. Hell, just last Fall an astronaut moved into our town, and simultaneously all the leaves starting falling off all our trees.

Fuck...I was just informed that Giffords husband actually is an astronaut after quoting nonsensical criticism from the Upright Citizens Brigade...I feel like more of a douche than usual.

No need for that, it was a good try. Not very effective, but a good try anyway.

ah297900 wrote:

Goober, it would be an excellent example of the failure of socialized medicine if we actually had socialized medicine.

I would term what we have as "optionally socialized" medicine. You can get treated for free in any city in America.  Sure, the waits are long and the service is generally pretty bad, but if you are bleeding or crazy, there are plenty of free options. If you want to pay for better, you get it.

But I won't derail this most excellent of Rorscharch tests. Everyone sees in an act like this what they want to see. It can validate many world views, simultaneously.

PS: A comment on another blog: "Guns and nutters don't mix". All I could think of were these:

Gifford's email the day before...

http://politics.mycn2.com/2011/01/09/gi … o-grayson/

Thanks Phred, but no thanks. But you can forward Sarah's apologies to me, if she's got balls enough to make any at all.

phreddy wrote:

Sorry I can't wade through all this babble about how Sara Palin and Rush Limbaugh made him go off simply to determine if any of you have read this woman's tweets.  She went to school with the guy, was in a band with him, and called him a friend.  She describes him as as, "...left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy".  Sounds like about dozen of my High-Street friends.  And, by the way, you can send your apologies for Sarah Palin to me.  I will forward them for you.  (That way the black helicopters won't be able to find you.)

Dennis Miller was a leftist liberal before he started sucking the Republican cock.  People change.

I'd like to believe that Jared also wrote and recorded the soundtrack to his first video. Incoherent, rambling and yet predictably cheesy. If only all the conspiracy theories about government thought control were true, this is a young man who seriously needs outside assistance with his thoughts.

Dirckman wrote:

On another website I asked the question whether a young man like like Jared came to this point in his life through nature or nurture.  I'm personally leaning towards nurture and environmental inputs, but I wasn't prepared for the answer I got.  Ninety percent of the responses were blaming this event on the lack of a single payer health care system which would have prevented this entire issue because of mental health services for all.  Can't people look at any event outside of partisan politics anymore without seeing the players as individuals?  Can't people think outside of talking points that are spoon fed to them?

I have another question. Why did you post a pic of yourself in this thread?

phreddy wrote:

And, by the way, you can send your apologies for Sarah Palin to me.  I will forward them for you.  (That way the black helicopters won't be able to find you.)

You're right; she probably wasn't responsible. She and others like her who use angry, vitriolic rhetoric to make Americans fear and hate each other should continue to unreflectively use that kind of language because it's clearly part of the solution, not part of the problem. Now is not the time for people to step back and think about the consequences of their actions.

The very fact that this (here, in this thread) debate is possible indicates that there are some who have abused rhetoric. Since we're hunting the perpetrators, why not start with the political party that created its own tv network solely as a propaganda arm?

Headkicker wrote:

Dennis Miller was a leftist liberal before he started sucking the Republican cock.  People change.

Well, I'm a Republican, I have a cock, you're a liberal, are you ready to change?
(I hope you know I mean that in a loving way HK)

I don't want to give the impression that I'm supporting the right wingers (because I'm not), the lefties put a target on Gifford too....

Dmtdust wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

I don't want to give the impression that I'm supporting the right wingers (because I'm not), the lefties put a target on Gifford too....

http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/201 … =510&h=384

Yeah I saw this, but I would posit that this is different than a gun site symbol

That is intentionally not a target bullseye, even the layman can recognize that.

I wasn't defending,just pointing out an obvious difference.  I agree about Gov't., at least in part, and sometimes on the whole...

Emmeran wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

Yeah I saw this, but I would posit that this is different than a gun site symbol

It's impossible to rationally defend either side of the political spectrum.  One may be a little worse in one way, but a little better in another.  Regardless of how their actions positively or negatively affect us as individuals they are still nothing more than other people who are working to control us, our property and our actions.  Regardless of the level of control they are trying to exert it is still control backed by the barrel of a gun.  I won't make excuses for street gangs doing the same thing so I won't make excuses for these people regardless of their P.R. campaign.  Is Obama and Bush better than Stalin or Hitler?  Definitely, but I'm still not going to appreciate or support either of them for it.

Paranoid much?

Let me be today's ray of sunshine in your life, these fucks are the same that ran for class president; they are ineffectual and predictable.  The American society (just as those before it) has the ability to shrug off these assholes and get down to business when the situation requires.

America Prevails!

Agreed except for the part where you give the American society enough credit to shrug off the assholes.  Ask your average American a question based on political ethics, morals or legitimacy and they'll simply rattle off a talking point created by some politician or political think tank.  We have a population of people that turn over nearly half of their income in taxes and don't even question it.  These people are fucking naive and their thoughts are the product of government education.  Everything government does from beginning to end involves either theft, kidnapping or murder and these people will defend everything they do (as long as their party is in power) to the death.  I personally see no difference whatsoever between politics and religion, once people have accepted them they become a true believer regardless of the evidence.

Dirckman wrote:

Everything government does from beginning to end involves either theft, kidnapping or murder and these people will defend everything they do (as long as their party is in power) to the death.

Yes, that and the National Weather Service.