Dirckman wrote:

Agreed except for the part where you give the American society enough credit to shrug off the assholes.  Ask your average American a question based on political ethics, morals or legitimacy and they'll simply rattle off a talking point created by some politician or political think tank.  We have a population of people that turn over nearly half of their income in taxes and don't even question it.  These people are fucking naive and their thoughts are the product of government education.  Everything government does from beginning to end involves either theft, kidnapping or murder and these people will defend everything they do (as long as their party is in power) to the death.  I personally see no difference whatsoever between politics and religion, once people have accepted them they become a true believer regardless of the evidence.

Fuck You and the twisted precept you rode in on, we Americans will survive you and your ilk.  Have a pleasant life - we will continue on.

Dirckman wrote:

These people are fucking naive and their thoughts are the product of government education.  Everything government does from beginning to end involves either theft, kidnapping or murder and these people will defend everything they do (as long as their party is in power) to the death.  I personally see no difference whatsoever between politics and religion, once people have accepted them they become a true believer regardless of the evidence.

Dirck, I always appreciate it when you remind me that this is a sand box where both children and cats play.  Some of the lumps and puddles you leave behind, however, make it hard to enjoy.  Just do me one kind favor.  For just a few minutes, drop your doctrine and take a look at what government actually does in this country.  It is nether perfect nor the Evil Empire.

Fled wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

These people are fucking naive and their thoughts are the product of government education.  Everything government does from beginning to end involves either theft, kidnapping or murder and these people will defend everything they do (as long as their party is in power) to the death.  I personally see no difference whatsoever between politics and religion, once people have accepted them they become a true believer regardless of the evidence.

Dirck, I always appreciate it when you remind me that this is a sand box where both children and cats play.  Some of the lumps and puddles you leave behind, however, make it hard to enjoy.  Just do me one kind favor.  For just a few minutes, drop your doctrine and take a look at what government actually does in this country.  It is nether perfect nor the Evil Empire.

As me and some of my lawyer friends like to say, there are just some areas where government regulation is inherently necessary.  The EPA is one of those necessary agencies.  One would think that everyone wants clean air and water, and does not want to strip mine the beauty out of the earth, but one need only look at China to see what happens when corporate interests outweigh human interests.  Their air and water quality is deplorable.  People routinely die in their factories and mines.  Speaking of which, OSHA is also necessary.  China is an example of what happens when working conditions are not regulated.  I could go on and on, but it always amuses me when libertarians say unequivocably that government should stay out of everything. They really haven't thought it through.  I wish they'd stick to trying to keep government out of the things that matter...drug laws, reproductive rights, religion, sex between consenting adults. But I for one want the government to keep corporations from poisoning my air and water.  The  old argument that the free market works does not apply here.

Ok, this is funny:

It is possible the boy is batshit crazy and not much more.

Last edited by MSG Tripps (2011-01-12 16:16:24)

Taint wrote:

Oh, it's just like you to fuck up a perfectly entertaining thread with some sort of reasonable information.

Hey Taint.  Go figure.
I like this bit.
Arizona 1
Westboro Baptist Church 0

fortinbras wrote:

MSG Tripps wrote:

It is possible the boy is batshit crazy and not much more.

Wow, this makes Kathasungs arguments sound rational in comparison.

OK, now I'm frightened.

Gray wrote:

As an observer outside the US...

Hey to an Aussie.  I've heard loose cannons are not uncommon down there.

Why be sorry to say something that is the truth in your opinion? Tell it like it is. An outside observer, stating what they see through non-tainted eyes, can sometimes make all the difference.

Sadly, tonight's "memorial" service sounds more like a campaign event and less like a thoughtful and dignified memorial to those who have fallen.

*Sigh*

headkicker_girl wrote:

whosasailorthen wrote:

Sadly, tonight's "memorial" service sounds more like a campaign event and less like a thoughtful and dignified memorial to those who have fallen.

*Sigh*

Funny how different people hear different things...a friend of mine, who is a Republican, said that he found the speech to be dignified and apolitical, and he hates Obama(not personally, just politically, but he does believe Obama is a Muslim).

Ok, I take it back.  Republican friend just called me to say that he was listening to Limbaugh who pointed out how he had been manipulated by Obama's speech and that Rush said Obama used the tragedy to tell Americans that they shouldn't criticize him. 

Sigh.

I believe in the old adage of "There are two types of people in the world.  People who want to be left alone and people who won't leave them alone."  It seems that both the politically left and politically right in America today both fit squarely within the latter category.  If you can't see that fact by flipping on the news or by just skimming this thread you're blind.

Dirckman wrote:

I believe in the old adage of "There are two types of people in the world.  People who want to be left alone and people who won't leave them alone."  It seems that both the politically left and politically right in America today both fit squarely within the latter category.  If you can't see that fact by flipping on the news or by just skimming this thread you're blind.

Why can't you just leave me alone?

Gray wrote:

On the subject of the Second Amendment, do you ever reflect on government interference in the form of seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws?

Yes.  It is government interference and it is overreaching.  Here, seatbelt laws are used as an excuse to stop cars with blacks, hispanics and teenagers and search everyone in the car.  "Nice" people don't get stopped and searched for it.

Gray wrote:

Sometimes elected officials just want to protect people from their own stupidity.

Who cares what they want?  It's not what they're there for.

Gray wrote:

Give up this false clinging to 18th century documentation and give in to the 21st century and living in a civilised society.

The documentation might be from the 18th century but the ideas are more or less timeless.  A couple of hundred years isn't very long for a society to cling to core values.  The value of the Constitution in the US has been proven over and over, stretched and abused though it has been.

George Orr wrote:

Ew ew ew.

Here's it linked so we can actually see it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/15 … nted=print

fortinbras wrote:

George Orr wrote:

Ew ew ew.

Here's it linked so we can actually see it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/15 … nted=print

I went to BugMeNot to get a NY Times password so I could read it.

]

George Orr wrote:

Ew ew ew.

While Glocks got real popular, I can only wonder if red g-strings will also show a surge in sales?

Tall Paul wrote:

George, shouldn't that be in the Rule 34 thread?

*barfs*

GooberMcNutly wrote:

Gray wrote:

Give up this false clinging to 18th century documentation and give in to the 21st century and living in a civilised society.

I prefer to think of it as clinging to one kind of 18th century government vs another.

Do you think that people were either nicer or meaner in the 18th century? Neither, they were just as avaricious, self centered and power hungry as they are today. The founding fathers knew two things: 1) Ruling without the consent of the governed caused despotism and 2) Despotism could only be maintained through oppression.

A republic at the whim of the "elected" officials without rules or rule of law degenerated into anarchy and power struggles. The French made that mistake and had a revolution without a strong constitution and tens of thousands of them paid the ultimate price for that mistake, killed at the hands of the people that they had originally supported to protect them. Most of the people killed in the reign of terror were executed to "protect the sovereignty of the state". That's another way of saying that they were executed for speaking their minds against the actions of very government they created. Sound familiar?

What Should be set up at the Mall for Congress... and on either end of Wall Street:

Gray wrote:

thefriendsofeddiedoyle wrote:

Gray wrote:

On the subject of the Second Amendment, do you ever reflect on government interference in the form of seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws?

Yes.  It is government interference and it is overreaching.  Here, seatbelt laws are used as an excuse to stop cars with blacks, hispanics and teenagers and search everyone in the car.  "Nice" people don't get stopped and searched for it.

Gray wrote:

Sometimes elected officials just want to protect people from their own stupidity.

Who cares what they want?  It's not what they're there for.

Gray wrote:

Give up this false clinging to 18th century documentation and give in to the 21st century and living in a civilised society.

The documentation might be from the 18th century but the ideas are more or less timeless.  A couple of hundred years isn't very long for a society to cling to core values.  The value of the Constitution in the US has been proven over and over, stretched and abused though it has been.

Spoken like a true "Libertarian" (a fanciful construct based on the premise that the Constitution provides everything that is needed, regardless of its 18th centrury origins - why not just go the whole hog and start literally interpreting the Bible?)

Somehow Americans have taken the Constitution and the "founding fathers" and turned them into the new religion of American exceptionalism.  To hear most people talk about them is akin to hearing a true believer tell the story of Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the ten commandments.  Both the constitution and the ten commandments contain some common sense ideals like don't hit people or take their stuff, but both of them have their fair share of stupidity as well.  Treat these documents for what they are, ideas written on pieces of paper by nothing more than other people.

Gray wrote:

Dirckman wrote:

Somehow Americans have taken the Constitution and the "founding fathers" and turned them into the new religion of American exceptionalism.  To hear most people talk about them is akin to hearing a true believer tell the story of Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the ten commandments.  Both the constitution and the ten commandments contain some common sense ideals like don't hit people or take their stuff, but both of them have their fair share of stupidity as well.  Treat these documents for what they are, ideas written on pieces of paper by nothing more than other people.

Thank you, Dirckman, who would have thought you were going to be the voice of reason? Though my low expectations are probably based on a lingering memory of your weiner dressed up in its various disguises. Where's my girl TigerLily anyway?

I kinda miss TigerLily myself.  I don't think I ever saw a picture of her, but with an exotic name like that I always felt that she musta been hot!!!  Anyhow, if you want to knock a constitutionalist to the ground ask them to read this... http://jim.com/treason.htm  They don't even need to read the whole thing and their entire religion falls flat on its face.  I know an older conservative that always turned to the constitution as a argumentative weapon in every discussion.  It was like talking to a bible thumper that says that the bible is true because the bible says it is.  I gave him a copy, he read it, and now he has to find moral and pragmatic differences to discuss in our debates.

This is so beautiful it makes me want to cry

Johnny_Rotten wrote:

This is so beautiful it makes me want to cry

Link to YouTube page

I'm moved.  Now I just need some Charmin.

Dirckman wrote:

Treat these documents for what they are, ideas written on pieces of paper by nothing more than other people.

The Constitution is a bit more than that.  It's bedrock law that applies to and affects millions of people, Spooner's arguments-over-port-in-the-den-after-dinner aside.