#1 2007-12-01 21:57:54
I have pile of books I approach with terror. Most prominently _Ulysses_ and _Moby Dick_. I fear them more than prostate cancer. Amongst them is Joseph Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_. I touched it. It explains life, the universe, spirituality, everything in one convoluted and verbose paragraph -
(via Project Gutenberg)
===
He paused.
"Mind," he began again, lifting one arm from the elbow, the palm of the hand outwards, so that, with his legs folded before him, he had the pose of a Buddha preaching in European clothes and without a lotus-flower--"Mind, none of us would feel exactly like this. What saves us is efficiency--the devotion to efficiency. But these chaps were not much account, really. They were no colonists; their administration was
merely a squeeze, and nothing more, I suspect. They were conquerors, and for that you want only brute force--nothing to boast of, when you have it, since your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others. They grabbed what they could get for the sake of what was to be got. It was just robbery with violence, aggravated murder on a great scale, and men going at it blind--as is very proper for those who tackle a darkness. The conquest of the earth, which mostly means the taking it away from those who have a different complexion or slightly flatter noses than ourselves, is not a pretty thing when you look into it too much. What redeems it is the idea only. An idea at the back of it; not a sentimental pretence but an idea; and an unselfish belief in the idea--something you can set up, and bow down before, and offer a sacrifice to. . . ."
===
Also notable, its healthy and frequent usage of the term "nigger" from a time it didn't carry so much weight. I suspect it would be banned today, or at least heavily edited.
Felch
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#3 2007-12-02 00:04:33
felch wrote:
Also notable, its healthy and frequent usage of the term "nigger" from a time it didn't carry so much weight. I suspect it would be banned today, or at least heavily edited.
It carried just as much weight then as it does now, the only difference being that, then, you could get yourself lynched for objecting to being called one. Was there ever a "healthy" use?
I never understood ebooks. I enjoy reading, and understand the drive to make literature available online, but I see a future with kids using nothing but one of these and never knowing what it's like to hold a book, go to a library, turn pages, stay up all night or fall asleep reading, etc.
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#4 2007-12-02 00:25:09
On the other hand, I'll take a searchable textbook over flipping through an index any day.
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#5 2007-12-02 00:37:14
felch wrote:
I have pile of books I approach with terror. Most prominently _Ulysses_ and _Moby Dick_. I fear them more than prostate cancer. Amongst them is Joseph Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_. I touched it. It explains life, the universe, spirituality, everything in one convoluted and verbose paragraph
A priveleged Pollock who still missed the point, I think.
Have you ever known or known of a rich kid who accomplished jack shit? Obscene wealth is relatively recent but generations now of literate people have known they're fucked when faced with people who don't have to face reality.
I like Melville and Conrad, and Kipling, too but they inhabited a world that no longer exists.
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#6 2007-12-02 00:47:55
Yes, Kipling was a bit of a cracker before it was fashionable too, wasn't he. The sun never set on Fnord's planet, once.
tojo2000 wrote:
On the other hand, I'll take a searchable textbook over flipping through an index any day.
Ditto...but I've been trying to avoid things that need indexes, lately.
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#7 2007-12-02 01:11:01
pALEPHx wrote:
Yes, Kipling was a bit of a cracker before it was fashionable too, wasn't he. The sun never set on Fnord's planet, once.
Here's a catchy verse...Eminem got nuttin' on dis guy....(speaking of crackers)
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest (sic) roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Ya think Bush ever read Kipling? Naw...hilarity ensues
Last edited by Lurker (2007-12-02 01:13:39)
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#8 2007-12-02 01:28:57
pALEPHx wrote:
Was there ever a "healthy" use?
When you start criminalising language, you start burning witches.
Felch
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#9 2007-12-02 01:57:26
felch wrote:
pALEPHx wrote:
Was there ever a "healthy" use?
When you start criminalising language, you start burning witches.
Felch
Burning, drowning, gagging, who cares...what's the matter with you? Are you some kinda nigger, kike, faggot, dyke, dago, pinko commie? BTW we spell criminalizing here with a z...fucking limey.
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#11 2007-12-02 02:22:01
Lurker wrote:
Ya think Bush ever read Kipling? Naw...hilarity ensues
I wrote a one sentence book report on Captain's Courageous arguing it was implausible fantasy, that any boat's crew at sea six months would immediately filet an insufferable castaway and use him for bait. I wasn't a successful student.
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#12 2007-12-02 02:52:38
felch wrote:
When you start criminalising language, you start burning witches.
I never suggested the word itself was criminal, only that a large number of people still seem to think so little of using it. In the context of late 19th and early 20th C. fiction, it actually had far less literary weight because the authors had little reason to think otherwise of its meaning. It was literally calling a spade a spade, and no different to many of them than some of our grandparents would call Asians "Oriental" (although I'd bet some writers knew perfectly well it could have debasing connotations and didn't care because their readership was unlikely to). It's the latter-day political correctness that may have attached baggage to the word 'nigger,' but it's baggage that still needs to be there, and that's not a word we should rush back into the majority's vernacular for the sake of diluting its power to offend.
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#13 2007-12-02 03:01:28
Pale wrote:
felch wrote:
When you start criminalising language, you start burning witches.
I never suggested the word itself was criminal, only that a large number of people still seem to think so little of using it. In the context of late 19th and early 20th C. fiction, it actually had far less literary weight because the authors had little reason to think otherwise of its meaning. It was literally calling a spade a spade . . .
Fucking hand-held tools - Simply "kicking-back," and reaping the benefits whilst others do the work!
Pale wrote:
. . . and no different to many of them than some of our grandparents would call Asians "Oriental" (although I'd bet some writers knew perfectly well it could have debasing connotations and didn't care because their readership was unlikely to). It's the latter-day political correctness that may have attached baggage to the word 'nigger,' but it's baggage that still needs to be there, and that's not a word we should rush back into the majority's vernacular for the sake of diluting its power to offend.
< SnoopyDogAdence > Y'all listen; 'Cause that's my Nigger talking right there. Lay that PC smack-down on their asses, Bitch. < /SnoopyDogAdencene >
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#14 2007-12-02 06:05:26
pALEPHx wrote:
felch wrote:
When you start criminalising language, you start burning witches.
I never suggested the word itself was criminal, only that a large number of people still seem to think so little of using it.
Heh, you seem to have a brain... Yet you spambot as though you believe every 1000 posts adds an inch to your dick.
"Nigger" has a very precise place in some of todays vernacular - and it has little to do with skin colour (insert spelling flame here pea-brain - no not you pENIx).
The fury (the beautiful fury) of American hardcore at the start of the 80s was a rejection of "nigger music" - the shite of the disco (Saturday Night Fever) / stadium rock (Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac) era.
It was the rejection of empty-vee, and the first revolt against the "brands" that were creating environments in ghettos where children would murder each other over a pair of sneakers.
Oxymoronic in the extreme, the east coast bench mark of hardcore were a bunch of rastas, west coast being Black Flag. Race was never an issue when they gigged together - destroying yuppie property was was what counted.
"Nigger" today for a large number of us implies Eminem and Britney Spears. Not Robert Johnson.
No doubt, in your neck of the woods, that word would get me killed. But to me and my multicoloured friends, the term is surgical.
Added Goodness: "Choking a darkie" is OZ slang for taking a dump. Take that one to Compton.
Felch
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
Last edited by felch (2007-12-02 06:14:24)
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#16 2007-12-02 11:51:12
Tojo, ever read this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Julia … riptwriter
Often described as fantasy fiction, it's the closet thing I've ever found to a perfectly faithful and hilarious description of Peru in the 50s. It's Spanish to English translation is also flawless.
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#17 2007-12-02 14:44:36
choad wrote:
Tojo, ever read this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Julia … riptwriter
Often described as fantasy fiction, it's the closet thing I've ever found to a perfectly faithful and hilarious description of Peru in the 50s. It's Spanish to English translation is also flawless.
I don't know about Tojo, but I've read that book two or three times. You're right - it's funny as hell, and Peruvian friends of mine have high praise for it, as well.
I suppose it's probably best with a helping of cuy and a Pisco sour.
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#18 2007-12-02 15:11:01
Pisco straight, saviche and a side of anticuchos.
That was a portrait of a ruling class so small everyone knew and lived blocks from one another. I saw more deviant debauchery there by age six than most gringos witness in a lifetime. Vargas Llosa may suck as a politician but forty years later, he still nails it with every novel.
Last edited by choad (2007-12-02 15:13:16)
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#19 2007-12-02 15:38:14
An old boyfriend of mine grew up in Miraflores and claims his family was behind a couple of coups about 100 years or so ago. He also makes a great aji de pollo.
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#20 2007-12-02 15:44:03
Taint wrote:
An old boyfriend of mine grew up in Miraflores and claims his family was behind a couple of coups about 100 years or so ago. He also makes a great aji de pollo.
They all claim that and more. But they know their food, and how to let out the animal.
I'm sure I wouldn't know the place anymore.
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#21 2007-12-02 18:00:45
felch wrote:
Added Goodness: "Choking a darkie" is OZ slang for taking a dump. Take that one to Compton.
Yeah, I still prefer pinching a loaf and protest music seemed to lose all its meaning once Nixon cashed his check... all but this song:
http://www.bushflash.com/idiot.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1fUaXCmqME
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#22 2007-12-02 18:10:19
choad wrote:
Tojo, ever read this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Julia … riptwriter
Often described as fantasy fiction, it's the closet thing I've ever found to a perfectly faithful and hilarious description of Peru in the 50s. It's Spanish to English translation is also flawless.
No, I haven't, and I'll have to check that out. Maybe I'll be really daring and try to tackle it in Spanish.
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#23 2007-12-02 19:13:11
Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter
tojo2000 wrote:
No, I haven't, and I'll have to check that out. Maybe I'll be really daring and try to tackle it in Spanish.
It is dated. I'd watch the half assed Hollywood adaptation first...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100822/
Then read something more recent, like 'Death in the Andes' or 'The Feast of the Goat', both available in translation.
Last edited by choad (2007-12-02 19:14:18)
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