Oh, Phred, don't you know all politicians lie?

(There, that was an easy Democratic dismissal, wasn't it?  Nothing more needs to be said.  Move along please.)

When you two said "let's move on", it occurred to me that Obama forgot to send his talking points to me.  That's funny because the real shit hasn't even hit the fan yet.

phreddy, you act like you WANT the shit to hit the fan. I am so glad you are concerned about all of your fellow Americans instead of buying into one political parties BullShit.

phreddy wrote:

Forcing them into this debacle is criminal.

Forcing Obamacare as an intermediate step to single payer is criminal; but our turd eating politicians feel it's the best their masters will let them get away with at this time.

doesyourpussyhurt wrote:

phreddy, you do remember that the ACA was a compromise developed by Congress and the President, don't you? So your incessant whining would be better served if you did it to those you elected who apparently ignored your personal wishes. Whining here wins you nothing.

And your party has now had what? Five years to come up with an alternate plan? And for their efforts there is, well, nothing. NOTHING. So quit acting like they have some grand plan to take the place of the ACA. They don't.

I'm not sure where you have been for the past five years, but here are the facts:
1.  You can't call a bill a compromise that had zero GOP votes, has never had the support of the American public, and was pushed through by Obama's drones Pelosi and Reed by bending congressional rules.

2.  The GOP has offered a number of fixes and, more recently, a better alternative to Obamacare, but Reed never allowed the fixes to come to the floor of the Senate.  I doubt we will see any vote on the alternative until the GOP takes over the Senate.

3.  If I'm considered a whiner, then I'm joined by the majority of Americans.  Only 38% believe it's a good law.  54% disapprove and 48% say it will make their lives worse.  That sort of makes you the oddball, now doesn't it?

The simple fact is that this WAS created by a compromise from all involved. The lies you were fed, as usual, have become fact to you because they were repeated so loudly and so often by the GOP talking heads that now you believe those lies to be reality. They are not. Your talking points are simply rhetoric which has become supposed fact due to repetition. The ACA was available to read on the internet for two weeks before the vote was taken. If your party failed to read it then they are at fault, and again I say go whine to them. That is what you should be doing. I can also find statistics that show the majority of Americans are for the ACA. Statistics are for people who have no argument. Statistics are created by phrasing the question to get the outcome you desire. Yours are no different. Polls, same thing. I don't buy into them and I don't give them weight in an argument.

This is the actual history of the ACA.

This from the website http://healthcarereform.procon.org

"Republican and Democrat congressional representatives introduced 133 health care and related bills during the 111th session of Congress (Jan. 2009 - Dec. 2009). Many Democrats supported measures such as the public option and individual mandate, while many Republicans opposed increasing government spending and control on health care. On Nov. 7, 2009 the House Democrats garnered a vote of 220-215 to approve the Affordable Health Care for America Act (HR 3962). Only one Republican, Anh Cao (R-LA), voted for the bill, and 39 Democrats voted against it. The bill was estimated to cost $1.1 trillion, provide coverage for 36 million uninsured Americans, and create a government health insurance program. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that the bill would reduce the federal deficit by $118 billion over 2010-2019.

On Dec. 24, 2009 the Senate approved similar health care reform legislation called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (HR 3590), in a 60-39 party-line vote. HR 3590 began as the Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009, a bill passed by the House on Oct. 8 that modified the homebuyers credit for members of the Armed Forces and certain other Federal employees. In a procedural move, the Senate co-opted HR 3590, removed all existing language, and replaced it with the language of their health care bill, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. No Republican Senator voted for the bill. Some Republicans argued that the bill was unconstitutional, socialistic, too costly, and would increase health insurance costs for those who are already insured. This bill was estimated to cost $871 billion over 10 years, would require most Americans to have health insurance, and would extend coverage to 31 million uninsured Americans. The CBO estimated that the bill would reduce the federal deficit by $138 billion over 2010-2019.

Negotiations to reconcile the House and Senate bills stalled in Congress after Scott Brown (R-MA) won late Ted Kennedy's (D-MA) vacant Senate seat in Jan. 2010, causing Senate Democrats to lose their Republican filibuster-proof majority of 60 seats. On Feb. 22, 2010 President Obama unveiled his own proposal bridging the Senate and House health care bills, placing pressure on the House to pass health care reform legislation. House Democrats advanced the their amendments to HR 3590 as a new budget reconciliation bill, which is a form of legislation that requires only a simple majority and not a supermajority of 60 votes in the Senate to be approved.

On Mar. 21, 2010 the House approved the Senate's bill (HR 3590) in a 219-212 vote and passed the House's amendments to HR 3590 as the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (HR 4872) in a 220-211 vote. The Reconciliation Act made financing and revenue changes to HR 3590, while modifying higher education assistance financing. No Republican in the House voted for either HR 3590 or the reconciliation bill.

President Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (HR 3590) (2.2 MB) into law on Mar. 23, 2010. This law was the main piece of legislation reforming the US health care system. "

So as you can see, this WAS a compromise from all. Democrats gave up the individual mandate and the public option, and the GOP got their desire to not increase the federal deficit with this program and a lack of government control in the overall program. They gave up nothing. Hence why the same insurance companies who caused many of the problems with the previous system are still causing problems with the current system. Had we gone with what the people really wanted, the individual mandate, this would not be a problem today and we would be working out the kinks in a far better plan. Instead we have this compromise, which is not great, but is far better than what we had previous to it.

Also, how is the GOP plan you showed "better"? It leaves huge gaps of uncovered people, mostly those who cannot get coverage due to pre-existing conditions. It was also simply another GOP attempt to undermine the poor in this country and benefit the rich. As they recently did again with the Farm Bill which once again cut federal food stamps but increased payouts to the corporate farms. This is "better"?

Pussy wrote:

Statistics are for people who have no argument. Statistics are created by phrasing the question to get the outcome you desire.

And you have made this abundantly clear.  There was no compromise.  As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.  The American public hates this program and will hate it even worse when the employer mandate kicks in.  The only reason it hasn't is because Obama delayed it in the hopes people would find out too late to make it an issue in the 2014 Congressional elections.

Yes, the House and Senate passed the compromise bill.  However, the Senate suspended the filibuster rule to do so because it had just  lost it's 60% majority.  Instead they passed it as a reconciliation bill needing a majority vote rather than the major legislation that it was.  Also, the House was also in a Democrat majority at the time.  There were zero Republican votes for any of this.  Pussy, that is not a compromise, it is a railroad job.  And Republicans have every right to be pissed off about it.

Pussy wrote:

The decision to do everything possible to kill this has been brutally obvious for all to see.

Well, yeah!  As I said, the Dem congress railroaded it through with no GOP votes and the American public doesn't like it.  That makes it a perfect Repub bludgeon for campaign purposes.  It's not insane, it's smart.

That is a question which is never answered by the Right. The Tea Party nutjobs is the answer, and they count for very little anymore. The wool that was pulled over some peoples eyes has been lifted revealing the crazy that was hidden. To those who think as they do (phreddy) it is "smart", but to the rest of the world, insane is the most often used term.

But the documentary about him just came out. It's heartwarming.