#2 2014-12-17 12:17:39
Another unilateral concession to a state sponsor of terrorism by our negotiator-in-chief.
Last edited by phreddy (2014-12-17 12:22:52)
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#3 2014-12-17 13:02:04
phreddy wrote:
Another unilateral concession to a state sponsor of terrorism by our negotiator-in-chief.
Because Elliott Abrams says so? The threads of that logic are so tenuous that they snapped several times just while I was reading the article.
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#4 2014-12-17 13:41:00
It's about time, the fastest way to break the Castro's power was to open things up.
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#5 2014-12-17 14:47:41
Emmeran wrote:
It's about time, the fastest way to break the Castro's power was to open things up.
Oh, you mean like how we broke the Chinese Communist repression of their people by normalizing relations with them? Try being a dissident in China these days. All I see we got out of that deal was a huge trade deficit and loss of jobs here because they subsidize their products and manipulate their currency to keep our money flowing to them. Meanwhile their government continues to repress the human rights of their citizens, steal our technology, influence our elections, and build up their military. Hell of a deal that was. Maybe the Democrats will be able to follow the Chinese model and secure big campaign contributions from Cuban government officials and all the new millionaires we will create with our money.
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#6 2014-12-17 15:28:28
phreddy wrote:
Oh, you mean like how we broke the Chinese Communist repression of their people by normalizing relations with them? Try being a dissident in China these days. All I see we got out of that deal was a huge trade deficit and loss of jobs here because they subsidize their products and manipulate their currency to keep our money flowing to them. Meanwhile their government continues to repress the human rights of their citizens, steal our technology, influence our elections, and build up their military. Hell of a deal that was. Maybe the Democrats will be able to follow the Chinese model and secure big campaign contributions from Cuban government officials and all the new millionaires we will create with our money.
Damn you're whiny today. Cuba doesn't matter to anyone anymore and it's a huge nose thumb at Russia as we'll now have a competitive advantage to developing their rich oil fields; just the very thought of that should make the Republican inside you happy.
Besides, we all know you're only outraged because Obama did it before a Republican could...
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#7 2014-12-17 15:29:43
The Castros have been in power for 55 years. Isn't it clear that our old policy was not suddenly going to prove effective?
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#8 2014-12-17 16:21:42
phreddy wrote:
Oh, you mean like how we broke the Chinese Communist repression of their people by normalizing relations with them? Try being a dissident in China these days.
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#9 2014-12-17 16:41:56
Emmeran wrote:
phreddy wrote:
Oh, you mean like how we broke the Chinese Communist repression of their people by normalizing relations with them? Try being a dissident in China these days.
When I said repressed, I didn't mean sexually repressed. Anyway, it was her twin sister. They're genetically the same person. He can always claim he thought it was her.
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#10 2014-12-17 17:04:03
Yes! If we just kept doing the same thing to Cuba again and again we'd win! Just like the war on drugs! Success after Success!
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#11 2014-12-18 17:28:24
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
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#12 2014-12-19 09:27:13
Americans like to act like Cuba has been festering away in the jungle for the last 50 years, cut off from civilization. But pretty much every country but the US has normalized relations with them for decades and they haven't improved much for it. There is no end of money in the EU and Asia that could be building up Cuba. But there is jack squat there. A few beach resorts, a few marinas. Why? Stability. The Castro crowd "leases" the State's property to the developers in exchange for a nice cut and everyone is happy. But there is no concept of private property in the laws of Cuba and it could all go south at any moment. The Cubans could tell the developers to get out or double the payoff or something and the investors don't want to put all their money in just to see it nationalized away. So they hold back.
Nothing will change for the average Ramon if the US normalizes relations with Cuba except a bunch of old folks in Miami can now legally call their old friends and family on the phone and send them money instead of laundering it through Mexico first. And the downside is that we would then be free to legally deport refugees back to Cuba without having to get the Justice department involved, like they do for "swimmers" now.
I used to think that once El Jefe croaked that the Cuban people would get a breath of fresh air, but once I saw how well Raul has taken over and shown that a firm hand can transition control without chaos, I pretty much gave up hope. Stability is all the investors ask for, not human rights. More functionaries will lease more resorts to more Miami developers (Most likely the ex-Mariel Navy thugs who have gotten rich in South Florida real-estate) so more middle class Americans can sit on a generic beach and drink generic rum drinks and forget all about life back in Cincinnati for a week. More Cubans will move from toiling in a cane field to toiling in a hotel laundry and nothing else will change.
Last edited by GooberMcNutly (2014-12-19 09:27:33)
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#13 2014-12-19 11:40:24
Lots of people are now saying we got very little in the deal, but Obama may have gotten exactly what he wanted. I heard another interesting take on his motives. The lease agreement between Cuba and the US establishing Guantanamo, which dates back to the Spanish-American war, could be altered by the president without approval of congress only if we normalize relations with that country. This would give Obama the opportunity to shut down the facility and fulfill his first campaign promise.
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#14 2014-12-19 16:39:58
phreddy wrote:
Lots of people are now saying we got very little in the deal, but Obama may have gotten exactly what he wanted. I heard another interesting take on his motives. The lease agreement between Cuba and the US establishing Guantanamo, which dates back to the Spanish-American war, could be altered by the president without approval of congress only if we normalize relations with that country. This would give Obama the opportunity to shut down the facility and fulfill his first campaign promise.
You speak like Gitmo is a brand new base created only for your torturing enjoyment...
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#15 2014-12-19 23:15:55
phreddy wrote:
This would give Obama the opportunity to shut down the facility and fulfill his first campaign promise.
No time like the second half of his last term to get started on his campaign promises...
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#16 2014-12-20 08:57:45
Com'on Phreddy, think of the Rum and Cigars!!! Too long have our economic freedoms to purchase the best products available on the world markets been impinged by some politico's pride. Naturally those same politico's enjoyed those products for decades whilst we, the common man, did without.
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#18 2017-06-18 18:44:21
The man is just an asshole at this point. There is no reason for him to do this other than his obsession with trashing Obama and everything Obama achieved.
Auto-edited on 2020-08-02 to update URLs
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