This reminds me of a question I've pondered from time to time.  Do straight women get off on gay porn like straight men get off on lesbian porn?  I'm guessing the answer is "no".

our banner boy gets around....

Gee, nekid male geriatrics. What's not to like?

Dmtdust wrote:

It looks like a scene is actually on the way out... Taint?  no new recruits?

Y'know, I have almost never seen this addressed, but there must be a serious schism between older gays and the younger generation.

The guys in these photos must have spent their youth in the closet, hiding their true selves from everyone they knew, taking care never to be "caught".  Imagine spending the bulk of your adult life--and your entire sexual life--under such circumstances.

It must be such a joy to go out and be sexual under the open sky.

By contrast, a lot of younger people have probably been out since their teens.  I'm not saying it's been beer and skittles for gay boys recently, but you gotta admit, it's become a lot easier to be out, to one's parents and friends at least if not to the world in general, and to have boyfriends, a social life, etc. as opposed to the way things used to be.

That would explain why all the guys at this gathering seem to be middle-aged to old.  Younger guys may simply not feel the impulse to display themselves like this because they never experienced the deprivation.

But I'm just a breeder lady thinking aloud.  What do the actual fags on the Street think about my theory?

whiskytangofoxtrot wrote:

Well, my dad always told me, "Son, it's better to be pissed-off than pissed-on."
http://www.zombietime.com/up_your_alley … G_4103.JPG
This fellow never had that little talk.

I don't think the cell phone works with that outfit.

George Orr wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

It looks like a scene is actually on the way out... Taint?  no new recruits?

Y'know, I have almost never seen this addressed, but there must be a serious schism between older gays and the younger generation...

Starting off with Dusty's comment: I suspect you're right and you're wrong. For a lot of older guys, the Dore Alley and Folsom Street fairs are holdovers from their younger days - back when Folsom Street was the Miracle Mile and being public about your sexuality was revolutionary. I don't mean to downplay it in any way - gay men were taking control of their lives and of the public's perceptions about them with a serious "Fuck you". Many of my friends are from that generation, and the whole experience was a life changing event. Hell, it changed my life and I'm a part of the generation that followed.

There's also a group that tends to show up only during the street fairs: they're typically older and I suspect their big thrill is getting to do things like run around naked or masturbate or suck dick in public - and that's it. I wonder if they have much else going on in their lives, and I doubt it strongly. I enjoy the events around the fairs - friends throw parties, there are events all over the city. I didn't even bother to go to the Dore Alley fair this year - I don't like crowds that much and there are too many straight lookie-loos showing up anymore. It's great if straights want to attend, but it'd be nice if they dressed for the occasion and did something other than bring their cameras and cling terrified to their opposite-sex partners' hand out of fear of being mistaken for, you know, one of those people.

Moving on to George's question: I came out when I was 16 - I'm 42 now - and I was among the first people to come out publicly and in a big way in Arkansas in the mid-1980s. We were the most interesting thing to happen to Arkansas media that year and we were all over television and in the newspapers.  I can't imagine living any other way, and I've had it pretty easy. Other than adolescent drama, I really haven't had to struggle in any particular way. My entire ability to live my life openly as a gay man is due to the efforts of the guys in the generation before me. Tastes have changed, the culture's changed.

George, as for the age of the people attending the event, it's a pretty broad spread: the photographer is focusing on the things that terrify him the most, and by extension, all the other closeted Republicans who are too fucking cowardly to live their lives the way they'd be most happy.

There. I shall now relinquish my soapbox.

Taint wrote:

...I was among the first people to come out publicly and in a big way in Arkansas in the mid-1980s. We were the most interesting thing to happen to Arkansas media that year and we were all over television and in the newspapers.

First, I'd like to say that I feel stupid now for not at least considering that the photographer was being selective in the shots he took and posted.

But the above is what caught my eye.  I imagine local news spots headlined, "Homosexuals Discovered in Arkansas."  You say you had it "pretty easy"?  Jesus, you were a teenager--weren't you terrified?

Frankly, considering how traumatic the adolescent sexual experience is just for the mainstream kids, if I'd also had to deal with public attention and TV news crews I'd probably still be hiding under the bed.

Taint wrote:

George Orr wrote:

Dmtdust wrote:

It looks like a scene is actually on the way out... Taint?  no new recruits?

Y'know, I have almost never seen this addressed, but there must be a serious schism between older gays and the younger generation...

Starting off with Dusty's comment: I suspect you're right and you're wrong. For a lot of older guys, the Dore Alley and Folsom Street fairs are holdovers from their younger days - back when Folsom Street was the Miracle Mile and being public about your sexuality was revolutionary. I don't mean to downplay it in any way - gay men were taking control of their lives and of the public's perceptions about them with a serious "Fuck you". Many of my friends are from that generation, and the whole experience was a life changing event. Hell, it changed my life and I'm a part of the generation that followed.

There's also a group that tends to show up only during the street fairs: they're typically older and I suspect their big thrill is getting to do things like run around naked or masturbate or suck dick in public - and that's it. I wonder if they have much else going on in their lives, and I doubt it strongly. I enjoy the events around the fairs - friends throw parties, there are events all over the city. I didn't even bother to go to the Dore Alley fair this year - I don't like crowds that much and there are too many straight lookie-loos showing up anymore. It's great if straights want to attend, but it'd be nice if they dressed for the occasion and did something other than bring their cameras and cling terrified to their opposite-sex partners' hand out of fear of being mistaken for, you know, one of those people.

Moving on to George's question: I came out when I was 16 - I'm 42 now - and I was among the first people to come out publicly and in a big way in Arkansas in the mid-1980s. We were the most interesting thing to happen to Arkansas media that year and we were all over television and in the newspapers.  I can't imagine living any other way, and I've had it pretty easy. Other than adolescent drama, I really haven't had to struggle in any particular way. My entire ability to live my life openly as a gay man is due to the efforts of the guys in the generation before me. Tastes have changed, the culture's changed.

George, as for the age of the people attending the event, it's a pretty broad spread: the photographer is focusing on the things that terrify him the most, and by extension, all the other closeted Republicans who are too fucking cowardly to live their lives the way they'd be most happy.

There. I shall now relinquish my soapbox.

"This post has too many words!"

George Orr wrote:

I imagine local news spots headlined, "Homosexuals Discovered in Arkansas."  You say you had it "pretty easy"?  Jesus, you were a teenager--weren't you terrified?

Frankly, considering how traumatic the adolescent sexual experience is just for the mainstream kids, if I'd also had to deal with public attention and TV news crews I'd probably still be hiding under the bed.

No, I was a teenager, ergo, I was stupid. It went well, though. My father, a redneck with a liberal conscience who had been very pointed in his efforts to teach me to speak out for what I believed in, had to endure the joy of having a public fag for a son, but was proud of me. A few relatives stopped talking to me, but later "forgave" me.

Zookeeper wrote:

Taint wrote:

My father, a redneck with a liberal conscience...

OK, now you're just making shit up...

Ah.... look who's profiling....

Zookeeper wrote:

OK, you nailed me. In real life I'm a cross-dressing alcoholic neo-Nazi go-go dancer with no knees. 

Who poses as a black man on the Internet.

Orangina, izzat u?

I'm sure the cumulative roster of "Girls Gone Wild" would give Folsom attendance a run for its money.

Fuck it all. All of it. From every imaginable position and combination.

I am pro sex. I am pro public sex. I am pro kinky nasty disgusting sex between ugly people. I am pro kinky nasty disgusting sex between ugly people and their consenting pets. I wish to protect the children from the false promises of innocence by allowing them to stick their "we-we's" into each other's "down-there's" at whatever age THEY feel is most appropriate. Porn should be taught in grade school.

If the fags want to pee on each other down in SOMA, I say good.
If drunk college chicks want to get nekkid on TV, I say good.
If some half-wit redneck wants to fuck his cow, I say, "get her done."

I feel it's vitally important that we immediately increase the number of women in the Congress to at least 40%. After which C-SPAN shall be displayed on 100 foot long billboards lining the major freeways of this country, showing all elected members spending their day fucking and sucking each other in the hallowed halls of our beloved Capitol. There must be more cock! THERE MUST BE MORE CUNT! Power to BOOBIES everywhere! ASSHOLES must be ALLOWED to express themselves in ANY direction. YEAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I am also pro-murder, on drugs and I know where you live.

Scotty wrote:

Zookeeper wrote:

icangetyouatoe wrote:

http://i36.tinypic.com/25aryoi.jpg

That's some wild simulated sex going on there (at least one can't tell if it's the real thing or not from the picture).  Is the golden shower taking place somewhere out of frame?

Can't you see the piss all over the deck?

I see a beach in the background and people in bathing suits in the foreground.  Failing an actual stream of urine in the picture it seems likely that's just water on the deck.  Actually, even more likely it's spilled beer.  Of course if it was spilled Budweiser beer you could argue it's piss I suppose...

pALEPHx wrote:

Zookeeper wrote:

Honestly, I doubt that. I could be wrong of course as I have not seen the videos. Do they feature golden showers in the street or guys ejaculating out of apartment windows and onto the crowd below?

It was a per capita assessment, only. If we are to judge who's vying for the most self-denigrating acts to be filmed for an anonymous audience, then the GGW bitches win, hands down. Folsom isn't commonly recorded for late-nite infomercials. It may make the rounds on marginalist sites like our own, but it's still outside the ken (and barbie) of mainstream Amurikuh.

The real oddity of the Folsom thingy is that it is essentially a community-sponsored debauch versus someone filming a little hanky-panky before anyone can call the cops.

pALEPHx wrote:

You see a difference between the two?

You don't?

icangetyouatoe wrote:

What's interesting is that now that you mention it, Pale, the spring breakers (it's part of a book by lauren greenfield called GirlCulture), particularly the girls, are way less empowered and way more fucked up looking than the mood on Folsom, pee man not excepted. The mood on Folsom seems like, hey, we're naked, we're all getting bjs, deal with it, while the spring break thing has a fog of rape, GHB and pathetic self debasement hanging in the air over everything like pea soup. (okay, that's a weird simile but whatever. )

I've always wondered about that. When same sex participants are involved in the aforementioned activities, I've always seen it as activity between equals. Perhaps because of my, um, limited interactions in that capacity with individuals of the female persuasion, I don't see it that way. Whenever I've seen porn featuring, for example, one woman and more than a few guys, the woman - no matter how forceful or strong a presence she might offer - seems vulnerable to me. It's not an interaction between equals. Two men may be involved in a degradation or power-play exchange, but ultimately it's about one man voluntarily submitting to another man. It never comes off that way in heterosexual exchanges. Am I reading too much into this?

Taint wrote:

Am I reading too much into this?

Probably not.

I'm no Dworkinite--I most emphatically don't believe that all sex is rape on some level or that any expression of female sexuality is (you should pardon the expression) tainted.

However, toe's line about "self-debasement" really rings for me.  I don't think that, for the girls, this scene is about sex; something else is going on, and I don't think it's anything healthy.  The girls give off an aura of being willing to do anything for some transient attention/approval from the males.

All the sexual activity is one-sided.  I don't see any sexual gratification for the females involved; they are very much in a subservient position, whether it's performing sex acts on the boys or just displaying their bodies.  Of course, lots of people get off on exhibitionism.  Some women get a thrill out of giving a guy oral--from their point of view, having a cock in your mouth is a dominant position, and I can see their point.  I just don't think most Spring Break Coeds are that kinky or self-aware.

For myself, if I'm giving oral or anything else, I damn well expect reciprocation.  Nobody rides for free.

Dmtdust wrote:

Porn is not real life.  With that said, I jumped into the conversation without reading all the previous postings. 

In real life, group situations have a certain flow dynamic.  Women often call the shots in choosing to participate... and specifically initiate.

I really have to wonder about that. Given what George has written, and given my own experience working with teenaged girls, I doubt sincerely many young women (or men) are able to make that decision; youth and inexperience do not make powerful women with the ability to make sensible decisions whether they initiate the activities or not.

Dusty, the difference is, a guy sleeps with 25 other guys or gets blowjobs in public, he walks away. A woman who sleeps with 25 guys or gets oral sex or gives oral sex in public is made fun of, harrassed, branded a whore or a slut and not someone who deserves to be treated with any kind of respect or grace by anybody. You might have the best sex of your life with her, but afterwards she's to be discarded as quickly as you might (you being the royal you, not you in particular) a used kleenex. Personally, I've had my share of wild times, but would I ever tell anyone about the playgirl model who bought me a strap on? The foursome at the sex club? Not on your life. Looking at me, I'm just another Holly Homemaker in a Passat, and my boyfriend would swear up and down the biggest sexual thrill of my life is maybe the time he talked dirty while fucking me after he got really drunk at a wedding reception. And God bless him, that's okay. He and the rest of the world (except for my fellow dear high streeters ) don't need to know.

Sex for guys-even gay guys, or maybe especially gay guys, is not a big deal, when they're having it or  when it's over.

Another issue I notice-and I'm no Dworkin either (she says defensively) -is that the gay guys are assorted types, getting serviced equally. Fat, thin, old, young, big dicks, small dicks, whatever, they're all having a good time. I wonder if there was some kind of "naked fair" for heteros if that would be true-my guess is those women over 25 and with the saggy bodies etc that often go with motherhood (not always, but sometimes) would be made fun of, scorned, harrassed etc., especially if they were acting "slutty".

It's a huge double standard and it is definitely a truth to be reckoned with by any woman with a clue in our society.  And I say that as a very attractive, relatively fit middle aged woman who's never had a shortage of dates, not as some overweight, alcoholic shut in with cats. (I'm saving that for my declining years...)

Toe
(who thought the strap on was kind of ho hum)

Last edited by icangetyouatoe (2008-08-23 22:27:02)

Dear Sweet Toe...I loved your post.  No, why should anyone really tell others about their wild times? 

Really, you can take my examples as hypotheticals.. In a court of law, or in front of my wife, (who knows more than she wants to) I will swear I was virginal until marriage.

I have a deep fondness for all my past partners.  All were a blessing in my life, and I mean it. 

I have much to thank them all for,

Dusty