#1 2008-09-03 16:42:33

They have enough problems without you adding to them

Among the subjects that must now be taught in Texas are English, math, science, social students, health, physical education, fine arts, economics, technology and "religious literature, including the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and New Testament."

"A school district must, of course, offer instruction in the subject matter … 'as required curriculum,'" said the attorney general's opinion, confirming for state education officials the legislature's intent. "The Legislature did not mandate that this curriculum instruction be provided in independent courses.'

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#2 2008-09-03 16:54:07

I have no problems with teaching the Bible as literature; the argument that knowledge of the Bible as a literary reference is valid and, even though I don't look to the Bible as a religious text for myself, I've read it several times and continue to delve into it. I've also read the Quran several times as well as many other texts.

Of course, in Texas, it won't be used that way.

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#3 2008-09-03 17:02:48

I took a "Bible as Literature" course in college.  It was actually quite interesting.

Of course, we used the Oxford Annotated, and actually delved into the history of the Bible and its literary relevance--things I doubt the Texas schools will be doing.

Nevertheless, knowledge is power, and many students who might otherwise never have done so will have to read the thing.  That won't do their faith any good, believe me.

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#4 2008-09-03 17:07:38

According to the article, Texas made it clear that the Bible as literature can be taught as an elective if enough students request it.  I don’t see a problem with this.  I took a class like this in high school, and it helped free me from uncritical acceptance of my inherited faith.  At one point, there was a possibility that I would grow up to become the Rt. Reverend Fnord.

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#5 2008-09-03 22:11:03

Bible as literature - OK.
Bible as reference - So So
Bible as definitive source - Fail

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#6 2008-09-05 06:33:50

And Chisum said the legislature specifically addressed the Bible, not the Quran or any other religious writing, because "the Bible as a text … has historical and literary value."

"It can't go off into other religious philosophies because then it would be teaching religion, when the course is meant to teach literature," he said.

Even I am impressed with the craftiness of this logic.

Of course if I had kids in a Texas High School I would  demand that they offer a similar course in another religious text of historical and literary value to millions of Americans. In the interest of promoting social accord and harmony with modern American cultural values, I would even be willing to accept another Christian text of note.

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Last edited by Johnny_Rotten (2008-09-05 08:16:09)

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#7 2008-09-05 07:39:29

When I was a child they had this "optional" twice-a-week "Bible Education" class. By "optional" I mean that you took a note home and mom or dad signed it giving you permission to attend the class. If you didn't bring back a signed note, you were to sit in a room with the other heathens and weren't allowed to talk or read (or sleep), just sit there. I asked why they weren't allowed to read and they said it wouldn't be fair because the Bible Study kids didn't get extra reading time... what fucked logic is that?

I say "Bible Education" but this was no different than any other youth Bible study I attended at the charismatic Christian church I went to as a child.

They avoided the whole "prayer in school" hurdle by having the class held in a mobile home (converted to a 2-desks per row classroom) located at the edge of the school parking lot.

Again, back in my day, if you didn't attend then you sat in a room and stared at a wall. Sure encourged everyone to attend. My best friend was a Muslim kid who didn't go. I felt bad for him but my mom signed the paper and they MADE me go from then on, even though I said I didn't want to do it after the first day. I should have pushed the issue with my mom saying I wanted out of it.

Surprisingly enough, this practice is still done in the same township I went to. My 11-y-o went through it in the 4th & 5th grades. He wanted to attend so I bit my tongue on the issue and signed the paper. My older boy also attended these classes.

Funny how not much has changed on these issues, at least in Indiana, from the early 80's to 2008.

Here I thought we'd be higher thinkers by now and drive around in rocket cars.. . (sigh)

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#8 2008-09-05 08:01:53

All we had at Podunk High School (somewhere in northern Georgia) was Bible Club on Thursday mornings.  The only pressure to attend came from my peers, and boy was there a bunch of that. 

Of course, if you were on a sports team you'd pray before your games.  I won't tell you the club that I was in (imagine the nerdiest club you can.  no, nerdier.  nerdier than that.), but before our competitions the woman who ran it would lead us in prayer.  Me and the local Jew requested that she at least make it non-denominational.  She agreed and then immediately led us in a prayer that ended with "In Jesus's Name we Pray." 

I mean, yeah I got bullied for being the only outed atheist in Bumfuck, GA, but other people got it just as bad for different reasons.

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#9 2008-09-05 08:39:53

jesusluvspegging wrote:

All we had at Podunk High School (somewhere in northern Georgia) was Bible Club on Thursday mornings.  The only pressure to attend came from my peers, and boy was there a bunch of that. 

Of course, if you were on a sports team you'd pray before your games.  I won't tell you the club that I was in (imagine the nerdiest club you can.  no, nerdier.  nerdier than that.), but before our competitions the woman who ran it would lead us in prayer.  Me and the local Jew requested that she at least make it non-denominational.  She agreed and then immediately led us in a prayer that ended with "In Jesus's Name we Pray." 

I mean, yeah I got bullied for being the only outed atheist in Bumfuck, GA, but other people got it just as bad for different reasons.

In the 4th grade some girls asked me what church I went to. Being annoyed a t the question, I said, "I don't go to church" (which, if I hadn't spent every weekend at my cousins, I wouldn't have gone).

They both informed me, with a sick sense of glee, that I was in "BIG TROUBLE" and that they were going to tell on me. I informed them that there is no rule saying I had to go to church. They were appalled that I'd say this and immediately went and told the teacher. The teacher informed them that this is my choice and none of their business. They tried to argue with the teacher and said they were going to tell their parents on the teacher if I wasn't punished.

They were amazed that I wasn't immediately taken before the class and flogged with cat o' nine tails. I was amazed that 10-y-olds were so programmed.

Ironically enough, I ran into one of the girls 10 years later at a party. She was on acid and was operating a gravity bong when I recognized her. I fucked with her, telling the story to the whole party about how she ratted me out for not going to church. She got real upset and left with her boyfriend in tow. I yelled, as she was walking away, "I bet you aren't making it to church in the morning. Jesus will be pissed".

In Jesus name, Amen...

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#10 2008-09-05 11:44:17

I always make it a point to stand with my head up and my hands behind my back at public prayers. I can be quiet and respectful without joining in. "Parade Rest" is what you call it when you are forced to stand and listen to BS for a while but still look like you are paying attention.

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