#1 2008-09-09 23:37:36
The official said Mr Kim had collapsed, but did not say when or how serious his condition was. He said he had not died.
But a North Korea official denied the reports, calling them "worthless".
The reclusive leader failed to appear at a triumphant military parade on Tuesday in the capital, Pyongyang, to celebrate his state's 60th anniversary.
Earlier, Western intelligence officials said Kim Jong-il might have suffered a stroke.
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#2 2008-09-09 23:56:18
Ugh. Clearly, that title was just waiting to write itself. It would be nice if the worthless little shit had a stroke. I wonder if there'd be a revolution if he died. Nah. You need people, with more than mud in their stomachs, to fight.
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#3 2008-09-10 00:01:06
I do wonder what will happen if he dies soon, or becomes incapacitated. Does he have a successor in place--or is he too egotistical (or paranoid) to have named one?
The people of NK have been cut off from the world for their entire lives, and Kim is pretty much a god to them. How on earth would they react--especially if there is no clear successor?
I'd say a revolution would be too much to expect of the population, not only because they're starved, deprived and cowed, but because, like I said, Kim and his late father are pretty much their religion.
Would South Korea have the stones to invade?
Last edited by George Orr (2008-09-10 00:03:27)
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#4 2008-09-10 00:11:23
George Orr wrote:
I'd say a revolution would be too much to expect of the population, not only because they're starved, deprived and cowed, but because, like I said, Kim and his late father are pretty much their religion.
So my question: does KJI have an heir designated, or did he not plan that far ahead because he's a raving nutter who's bought into the popular religion?
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#5 2008-09-10 00:31:31
I have a feeling that China would annex North Korea in the event of a governmental collapse following Mr. Ill’s death. This is why the denial’s of his illness and the huge military exhibition.
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#6 2008-09-10 01:22:40
I doubt sincerely China would want 23.5 million clueless North Koreans within their own borders; they're having enough problems with their other troublesome minorities. A sudden influx of people who had little idea how to behave in public is hardly ideal under any circumstances. I'm sure the very idea of a collapse of the North Korean state is enough to give the South Koreans pause.
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#7 2008-09-10 02:52:21
Actually China already has a problem with North Korean illegal immigrants. They cross over the river in the winter.
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#8 2008-09-10 03:50:45
Taint wrote:
I doubt sincerely China would want 23.5 million clueless North Koreans within their own borders; they're having enough problems with their other troublesome minorities. A sudden influx of people who had little idea how to behave in public is hardly ideal under any circumstances.
Korea has at times been under Chinese rule, and therefore some Chinese consider it part of a Greater China that must be reunified with China. Besides, 23.5 million is a lot of sweatshop workers we’re talking about.
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#9 2008-09-10 03:53:41
China is struggling mightily in the slowing global economy to deal with its own endeavors to support its hundreds of millions who have not yet taken part in its modernization. The last thing they want is cradle to grave responsibility for millions of another unbelieviably poor, unequiped and undersocialized ethnic minority.
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#10 2008-09-10 07:14:54
fnord wrote:
Korea has at times been under Chinese rule, and therefore some Chinese consider it part of a Greater China that must be reunified with China. Besides, 23.5 million is a lot of sweatshop workers we’re talking about.
Video of Chinese troops freeing and feeding all those people in the NK prison camps would do wonders for their public image. Never mind that they'd be going from one oppressor to another, it'd still be a huge improvement in the situation of the Koreans.
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#11 2008-09-10 11:10:05
No one, not China, not South Korea wants North Korea anymore. Except perhaps some mining and fishing concessions. Those folks took a good look at what happened to W. Germany after absorbing E. Germany (a decade of economic stagnation) and they know anyone picking up Kim's bill is fucked, fucked and fucked.
All of Kim's sons are useless, with possible exeptions in his many bastards. I would guess the top military would take the reins and attempt to make a deal with S Korea. They know it has to happen sometime and they know without a ____ Leader at the helm they can't keep on muddling through. It takes time to build a personality cult, Kim Jong Il's Dear Leader cult was built for 20+ years during Great Leader's rule and still almost didn't take.
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#12 2008-09-10 13:41:11
I think the South Koreans won't pass up a chance for reunification, even if it means destroying half their economy to get it. Worldwide aid would pour in, especially from the US and its allies, eager to reverse the image painted of them by the Kim Kult. The Chinese may object to all this on strategic or so-called "moral" grounds, but they have yet to take proper care of the billion or so people they already have in their charge. Which is not to say they won't assist in helping to suppress any military uprising. An ungoverned NK would be as much of a threat to them as anyone else in the region. Without a clear successor, this might be the first opportunity for a joint Chinese/American armed conflict, remarkable considering our supposedly mutually exclusive goals of "liberation" and "suppression." Dismantling NK's formidable ground forces and military infrastructure is going to require at least one superpower. Sadly, we've kept Japan chastened for over half a century, so they won't really be much help. Who knows. We might even get help from the Russians, as long as they can appear strong and generous without actually having to do much.
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#13 2008-09-10 15:45:28
pALEPHx wrote:
Dismantling NK's formidable ground forces and military infrastructure
Dismantle, hell! We need that equipment to fight Iran.
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#14 2008-09-10 15:49:16
Scotty wrote:
pALEPHx wrote:
Dismantling NK's formidable ground forces and military infrastructure
Dismantle, hell! We need that equipment to fight Iran.
I WANT BLOOD AND GORE AND GUTS AND VEINS IN MY TEETH
EAT DEAD BURNT BODIES
I WANNA KILL... KILL! KILL!
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#15 2008-09-10 16:03:20
Couldn't we just invade Florida? They obviously have a difficult time with the concept of democracy, it's certainly Third World, and it's a peninsula. I'd be willing to bet at least half of Americans would support such a move simply because they're too stupid to question it.
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#16 2008-09-10 16:11:29
Taint wrote:
Couldn't we just invade Florida? They obviously have a difficult time with the concept of democracy, it's certainly Third World, and it's a peninsula. I'd be willing to bet at least half of Americans would support such a move simply because they're too stupid to question it.
As long as I get the beach invasion during spring break concession I'm in.
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#17 2008-09-10 16:19:52
Taint wrote:
Couldn't we just invade Florida?
I dunno...Old people are gross. I hear they have diseases.
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#18 2008-09-10 16:21:06
tojo2000 wrote:
Actually China already has a problem with North Korean illegal immigrants. They cross over the river in the winter.
"Wet Noodles"?
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#19 2008-09-10 16:59:08
Zookeeper wrote:
tojo2000 wrote:
Actually China already has a problem with North Korean illegal immigrants. They cross over the river in the winter.
"Wet Noodles"?
No, I mean on top of the ice.
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#20 2008-09-10 19:18:25
tojo2000 wrote:
Zookeeper wrote:
tojo2000 wrote:
Actually China already has a problem with North Korean illegal immigrants. They cross over the river in the winter.
"Wet Noodles"?
No, I mean on top of the ice.
"Frost Backs"? Hmmm... no, that just doesn't have the required Asian theme. I got it! "Rice Skaters!"
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#21 2008-09-10 23:20:23
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